Tito finally comes clean about Sept. 29th, 2001.

That's so lame. Tito the only personal problem relevant you had was Bhop's fist in your face all night long.

 

I wonna say I love Tito. I loved the type of fighter that Tito represented. People claim that he was very limited. If that was the case he was a very sccessful limited fighter. In my eyes Tito is the greatest PR fighter I've ever seen. I also want to say every fighter in the world got an excuse when they lose. It is what it is! I'll Holla 5000

 

Actually my friend it does. "La Boriquena" it is called.


And personally, I don't think Puerto Rico would do too well going independent. It would end up like Cuba IMO.. Maybe worse.

 

You never saw Carlos Ortiz?

 

There was a great rendition of the Rican anthem for Trinidad's fight with Vargas, performed by Groupo Mania.

 

The thing is, that's bullshit, because the majority of those motherfuckers over here.

 

That has no bearing on the island itself.

Is New Zealand, "not a country" because there are more Kiwis & Maoris here, in Australia, than there are in New Zealand itself?

 

It isn't if those douches are still pretending they are in New Zealand.

 

What a tard of a statement.

 

I said it watching the fight and I'll say it again now ......Bernard Hopkins has one of the most underrated defenses of alltime. Tito never one time landed a clean lethal shot.

 

lets say the crowd was 75% pro Joppy and 25% pro Tito and the anthem of Puerto Rico (which is an anthem, not a "national" anthem, because Puerto Rico is not a nation) was played, do you think there'd be loud booing cascading all around the arena from the pro-Joppy majority?

 

I agree

Puerto Rico is part of our country, its people are Americans and I see them as my fellow Americans so I found it distressing that a shitload of them were booing the national anthem that they are part of, the same national anthem that represents Puerto Rican soldiers who have fought in our country's wars

this is an attitude I have found more in continental U.S. born Puerto Ricans than in those born on the island and it distresses me

 

The booing had nothing to do with who was fighting. It had everything to do with the island-wide protest against the US Naval unit stationed in Vieques (a protest led by several PR celebrities, including Trinidad) and its improperly using the island as a bombing test site, at one point killing a civiliann worker, which prompted the eventually successful protest.

That's why i asked if you knew the story, because I could tell by your responses that you were just looking at it from a boxing sense. Semantics aside on the anthem part, your post was completely off-base.

I was in attendance that night, and found the crowd's reaction to be in poor taste, and still do. But there is the reason why it was done. Had nothing to do with Joppy or with boxing in general.

 

I am 100% familiar with what was going on at that time and it's irrelevant

To protest, you boo the national anthem of your own country? Im not a "love it or leave it" type of guy, far from it, but the anthem isnt just for the benefit of policy-making, murderous politician assholes and the rich... its for the rest of us, as well, all of we normal folks who together, on its best days, make the land the utterly unique multi-cultural experience it is... Puerto Ricans are Americans, too, and by booing the national anthem they are separating themselves from the rest of us, as if it all doesnt apply to them... I find that both profoundly ignorant and intellectually offensive

protesting the bomb testing is fine (and totally justified, in my opinion) and addressing grievances to the government is part and parcel of the constitution, but doing it in that way (booing the anthem) is absurd and self-defeating

 

Well, obviously at the time they didn't view it as their own anthem, nor did they feel particularly American at the time.

What you say is technically correct, but also a simplistic view of things.

The truth is that Puerto Ricans are rarely if ever viewed or referred to as Americans, other than the acknowledgment that PR is part of the US.

The US treats PR as its dumping ground because it can, and allows the island to be a part of the US for its own business purposes and really no other reason. The US can sever ties anytime it wants, but won't do so until they completely run out of use for the island.

Hawaii and Alaska are states, but are still referred to as Hawaiians and Alaskans more so than they are called Americans.

 

if the situation is so dire, then why don't Puerto Ricans vote to be independent? if the US is oppressing them so badly, then why not simply sever ties themselves?

the vast majority of the people in MSG that night very likely dont live in Puerto Rico, they live here ... if the US is this giant bogeyman, then why live here?

I consider them Americans, the same way I consider people from Hawaii or Alaska Americans... I know some people dont think that way, but I think in the case of a lot of Puerto Rican residents of this country, they themselves make quite a bit of effort to act as if they arent Americans, except when it is convenient. This isnt just off the cuff guessing either, I have had this same discussion/argument with lots of Boricuas

 

You already asked this question and were given an answer. But the abridged version is that PR literally can't afford to be on its own.

I agree and like I said, I found the reaction that night to be extremely distasteful. But at the time, that was the reaction. But if you noticed, it didn't happen on the night of Hopkins-Trinidad - I guess a national tragedy changes everyone's perspective. There has also been far less resentment since 2003, when the US Navy finally packed up their stuff and left.

Here's the problem I have with what you're claiming... not that I doubt your sincerity, as I don't question that you truly carry yourself like that. But if you were to make a list of the greatest American fighters of all time, would Ortiz, Gomez, Benitez, Tito, etc be included in the discussion? Much like if I were at a party at my in-laws and some came looking for "the American" everyone would point at me.

 

Ummm. Because they can't. Yet. There is actually a bill before the US Senate which, if approved, would give Puerto Rico the ability to vote to determine it's future political standing. But it hasn't been approved.

Basically the same bill died in the Senate 3 years ago.

Short of a revolution, Puerto Rico doesn't have the ability to 'sever ties' with the US.

 

Tito wouldn't but the others certainly would

its just that usually someone will narrow it down to Puerto Rican fighters almost immediately... I cant rememebr the last time I was asked "who are the 20 greatest American fighters?" ... Its usually "who are the best Mexican fighters?" "best south american fighters?" "best Italian/Irish/African/Black-American/English, etc. etc."

the question is typically divided by ehtnicity or by weight class or era, etc. ... I dont know anyone has ever asked me "who are the greatest American fighters?"

 

you miss my point, they have been polled amongst themselves on whether or not they would want to sever ties if given the opportunity and overwhelmingly have said no

 

Whether they want to or not is one thing. However, you said "Why don't they just vote to be independent?"

And I just answered the question. They can't. They can vote in polls all day long, but at the end of THAT day their government is still under the jurisdiction of the US.

Personally I think the idea of being sovereign may sound nice, but if they are given the option, they really need to look at their neighbors before taking that leap.