Will Wlad stop Peter or not?

Both Rahman and Vitaly fought a Version of Lennox Lewis that was thinking about other things other than his next upcoming fight, not training properly, etc.....Rahman Ko'ed Lewis the FUCK OUT....while all Vitaly could do is get beat by the older version of Lennox Lewis...:scratcher:

 

But yeah, I do agree that Wlad didn't have much for options. I'm not angry he's fighting Peter... it's just a sign of the time. And that doesn't mean Peter is a good fighter or anything close. And this fight is an absolute mismatch.

 

Mercer and Bruno dropped Lewis five times each and knocked him out?

 

The guy has not lost in 6 years, has a strangle hold on the HW division, and he knocks out nearly everyone who doesn't fight in a complete shell (see Sultan). It is not his fault that there isn't anyone that can compete with him at this time and that can only be held against him so much.

As far as Sanders goes, Wlad has improved quite a bit since that night and I don't see the Sanders from that night beating what Wlad has evolved into. He isn't offensively as exciting as he once was, but under Manny with his jab and clinch style he has become nearly unbeatable.

Who did Lennox Lewis beat that was so great by the way? An old Tyson? An old and undersized Holyfield? Or are you hanging on to Mercer or perhaps Morrison? It's not like he was beating great (at the time that he fought them) fighters himself.

 

chicken shit holding Wlad won't risk going for a KO

 

:dunno:

He would be getting stopped by former Heavyweight champion.

Once again...I don't see why a fight-thread should be about anything other than the upcoming fight.

Neither Rafa Marquez or Izzy Vazquez were the 2nd coming of Ruben Olivares or Arguello. In fact, their fourth fight was a pre-ordained farce. But people respected it on the grounds of what they had witnessed beforehand.

This is a good fight. HW Division is a mess, Wlad is a bum, Peter has a big booty...I don't care.

Their first fight was a good fight. This one is also a good fight.

 

Lewis beat Bruno and Mercer...

 

He is coming off a 1 punch stoppage.

Any opinion on the comments of Abel Sanchez and Manny Steward?

 

He beat Bruno having had the worst of it up until Frank made a mistake, and he got the decision against Mercer.

He never wanted anything to do with either man after that.

Oscar arguably beat Tito and arguably lost to Quartey. Ali beat Foreman but never wanted a rematch. Foreman flat out avoided Quarry. Charley Burley couldn't get a fucking look in.

That doesn't make Oscar or Joey Maxim bums.:nono:

 

I personally think Lewis just may have been the best HW boxer of all time. Not the greatest, just the best. He would never do huge tickets, or die of dehydration in Manila, or make a millionaire out of a despotic dictator, or loiter around with loose women, or any of the other things that make a man great, but he was the best knuckleman in the history of the gloved game, period.

I don't even see what any of that has to do with Wladimir Klitschko, whom, if we believe what we have heard, seems to be underestimating, via his trainer, a dangerous and keyed up opponent in Sam Peter.

Decent fight in prospect..........that's the topic for debate, as far as I am concerned.

 

This is Orwellian Newspeak.. A combination of James Joyce and a Master Farrier couldn't smith words any better than that.

The matter in question was the Rahman-Sanders fight.

Do you or don't you agree that Stafford Attz description of how that fight unfolded needs revision.

 

You lost me on this one.

 

I don't think it is a "Mismatch". I think Wlad starts as a favourite, which is a reversal on the original scenario in 2005. Ironically, it is starting as a favourite that has been his undoing.

One issue may be how well Sam Peter feels returning to the scene of the crime in Germany, where he was viciously mugged.

If Peter is under 240, and anywhere near as well keyed up as we have been lead to believe, then this is a decent fight.

 

You are not quite being facetious but you are most definitely being frivolous.

Is it so desperately wrong of Wlad that he never "REED" Sanders?

Sanders did Wladimir in Spring of 2003. He may well have been moving towards a REE when he lost to Brewster.

A few months later, thanks to circumstances pertaining to Lewis which took almost 1 year to sort out, Vitali punched Sanders out of the elite for good.

He could have skipped on Brewster. Perversely, he gets more credit for an easy payday against a washed-up Brewster than he would have if he fought someone else.

It is not, of course, Wlad's fault that Brewster maintained the symmetry and ran into Lyakhovich in the first place.

 

Did Lewis lose to Frank Bruno and Ray Mercer?

Whether I like Wlad or not isn't totally relative. The conversation shifted a bit where someone said Wlad is comparable to Lewis. I find that absurd and addressed it. Forgive me if we strayed off topic a bit but that happens a lot around here and usually nobody complains.

By the way you seem to have an irrational love for the guy. If that's the case fine, but don't give me shit if I'm on the other end of that spectrum. Which I'm not.

 

Vitaly had to whip Sanders, because baby brother didn't have the balls/guts to do it himself...:Ramonza:it took Wladimir 2-3 years to get at Brewster...thats about the only similarities between him and Lennox Lewis.

 

Wlad was stopped by Ross Purity.

 

Okay, let's throw a ruler over that one.

There was 3 years between their first and second fights.....but only some of that delay was down to Wladimir.

For openers, Brewster picked up where he left off, fighting what he regarded as soft, easy Euro-pickings.

He was over in Germany fighting Luan Krasniqi when Wlad was getting ready to fight 25-0 Sam Peter.

Now...you tell me...who had the easier fight planned there?

After he got rid of Krasniqi, Brewster, the WBO champ, moved on to his latest soft, white pickings, and got fucked up by Sergei Lyakhovich.

Around the same time Wlad fought for and WON the IBF title from...Chris Byrd.

Now....a rematch could have been arranged but Wlad fought Peters instead. Hard to criticise him there, but I am sure you will find a way. He then fought for the IBF title.....a right he had earned when he beat Peter.

Now....he could have gotten a lucrative unification with Brewster but the bitch lost and got hurt in the process. He stayed out of the game for a full year after that. Not Wlads fault that... not at all.

 

I think you are the Barristan of General Discussion.

Wlad was fighting Peters when Brewster was fighting Krasniqi.

As I said....I will leave it up to you to decide who had the harder task.

If the Peters fight was such a soft option for Wlad......then why did 90% of the fight-press pick him to lose?

 

Peter is awful. If you don't think this is a mismatch, it says a lot about your real thoughts on Wlad.

 

Yes Brewster fought the softer opposition in between the two fights....SO?? He WON the fight..it's not up to him to go chasing Wladimir around. PLUS Brewster was never anything special what is he suppose to do step up again and get his head rip off this time around.

It's up to Wladimir to go chase Brewster around and get him back in the ring...

 

I have an irrational love for facts and for open-ended but even-handed discussion.

Wladimir is comparable to Lewis in many ways. Lewis was a better fighter, but their size, Olympic pedigree, and basic styles are certainly comparable. You can argue where the comparison starts and ends all night. There was some. I don't think it is even pertinent. I already explicitly stated that I regard Lewis as the BEST HW O.A.T

Lewis arguably lost to Mercer, and, while he won the Bruno fight, he was hurt in that fight and exposed stylistically by a stamina-deficient fighter. There was plenty room for a rematch in either case but Lewis wisely moved on.

 

No it's not Wlad's fault he isn't fighting comparable competition to what Lewis faced, however that doesn't mean we get to pull "Wlad is comparable to Lennox Lewis" out of our ass. What are you even basing that on?

Yeah Wlad has improved, do I think he could beat the Sanders who whipped him that night though? No I don't think he could. I think he still wouldn't have an answer for those straight shots coming at him and dealing with a guy his own size with an outstanding chin and outstanding power. When was the last time Wlad faced anyone like that and won? Never. Lewis did it against several guys who were in their primes. Mercer, Morrison, Zeljko, Vitali, Holyfield. I would wager Wlad couldn't beat half of Lewis' competition. Wlad is fighting in a time of smaller heavy's whereas Lewis fought several guys near his height and full of toughness and power, and he beat them all.

So fuck Wlad and his hasn't lost in 6 years, that's a grey area, it's not all black and white like you make it sound.

 

Brewster had been given a hard time by Wlad in the first 4 rounds of their fight. Not until he fought Lyakhovich was he ever worked over like that again. Why would he bother with a Wlad who was improving slowly under Steward? Plainly, he was making good money from his WBO bauble, feeding off the Euros, getting himself a good rep.

Wlad started back slowly, getting dropped by the limited but dangerous Williamson.

He then took the hard-knock option and fought Peter.....whom he beat. He then beat Byrd and somehow in all of this he is criticised for not "chasing Brewster".

If Brewster had held his end up he could have had a lucrative unification bout with Wlad. Instead he got injured and forced into a lengthy layoff.

He is actually fortunate that he got a pay-day from Wlad without needing to take a warm up first.

 

The big jab, big right hand, lumbering style {though Wlad has improved a bit} the Ammy pedigree...as I said there are comparisons. Why don't you leave it at that?

Wow. If you keep this up Vitali will be ending the night several notches up in everyones estimation. :laugh11:

There is a shortage of 6'4" super fast 220lb Southpaw heavies. And that shortage didn't become any less pressing by the time Vitali was thru with him.

:scratcher: You seem in one breath to make much of the unique stylistic nature of Corrie Sanders and then in the next breath mention distinctly generic stylists like Mavrovic and Mercer. Holyfield, for what is worth, was definitely not in his prime in 1998. Not even close dude. In fact Ring pulled BOTH Lewis and Holy off their, well, ahem......lb 4 lb lists after their first fight.

Unlike Ron King, you would not be "set" if you did this.

WHAT?????????????

Yeah I kind of picked up on that earlier.

In fact, I think that is EXACTLY what it is.

 

Yeah but I don't get why you asked me about him.

 

Wlad not losing in 6 years is a grey area? How is that not black and white? The guy hasn't lost. It seems pretty straight forward to me.

Mercer (who some argue beat Lewis), Morrison, Zelijko, Vitali (who most had ahead of Lewis at the time of the stoppage), and an old Holyfield. I am not seeing how Lewis's resume is so much better than Wlads.

Who did Lewis beat that was his size? Michael Grant? Frank Bruno? Was Grant any more competitive then the equally sized Jameel McCline that Wlad fought?

Who did Lewis fight that you don't think Wlad would have beaten? None of the guys you listed (obviously leaving out Vitali) would last the distance with Wlad.

I am not saying that Lewis is not an all time great. I think that he is definitely a Top 3 All-Time HW Great. I just don't think that Wlad should be so quickly discounted and I think a prime Wlad vs. a prime Lewis would be a pick-em fight which I am sure you disagree with.

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

The Ray Mercer that fought Lewis would have KO'ed Wladimir in a few rounds.

 

Holmes. Larry Holmes. Larry Fucking Holmes. Ancient Larry Fucking Holmes.

 

If you want to nitpick what he meant by comparable go ahead, but I was under the impression that he meant Wlad was as good a fighter as Lewis and that is what I took exception to. Now if you want to nitpick about them being comparable in height or foreign born fighters go ahead. Also I don't hate Wlad, but I've never considered him to be all that good. I actually have always preferred and liked Vitali though. Let's be honest, if you ever had a really big heavyweight who had one punch power and he was in against Wlad there's no way anybody would confidently pick Wlad to win.