Has Wlad changed as a fighter or is it the opponents?

I really haven't seen any change in Wlad as an overall fighter. He has always been a cautious, long-range, no-chin, no-infighting, great power fighter. He's adjusted to be even more cautious after several KO losses, but no major change or transformation overall.

 

He never showed any caution in the pre Brewster days and was happy to fight at close range.

 

:laugh11:

 

I think it is fairly clear that he has improved but the caveat of his opposition is always there. To truly guage the strengths of a fighter you need to see him really tested. Wlad hasn't been tested for near on five years because the level of his opponents is absurdly low.

MTF

 

I don't think you can hold that against Wlad though. He can only fight the guys available. Unfortunately, the best fight to be made is permanently off the table.

 

It's not a case of holding it against him; it's not his fault that the HW division is a shambles and his only real threat is his brother. I simply find it very difficult to form an opinion on how good a guy really is when he is not (or, in truth, can not) fighting anyone worth a damn.

I think Vitali is an interesting case in point. He has looked pretty much unbeatable himself fighting this collection of trash for quite a few years now but, on the one occassion he was able to fight a really good fighter (Lewis), he gave a creditable account of himself but lost inside six rounds. I'm not prepared to reiterate the content of the thread which retreads that fight here but that is what happened and it is the only real marker we have as to just how 'great' he is/was.

I personally don't think there is much between either Klit- Wlad is better technically but has a lousy chin whilst Vitali throws lots of arm punches but is a lot sturdier around the whiskers. Taken together, their respective strengths and weaknesses for me make them about equal IMHO.

For that reason I am fairly hesitant to consider Wlad as great or even very good simply because he has shown nothing, other than a much improved ability to beat the snot out of garbage, to distinguish himself from his brother, who in turn had his career-defining best moments when he stepped up markedly in class and lost.

Is Wlad a good HW? Sure. Does he fare well against the historical greats? Perhaps he does because he is huge by comparison to most and he has learned to use his size advantage very well. Does this mean that he is great himself? Not IMHO.

MTF

 

In fairness I think his opposition has actually IMPROVED (Chagaev, Ibragimov & Chambers were all respectable contenders). The problem being that the 3 guys who were decent were also the ideal stylistic foil for him, being light punching, small framed, counter punchers.

Anybody who comes forward WITH INTENT & decent defence, who can punch and who is quick on his feet (or tall) would still be a real problem for Wlad. I'm not sure any such person exists, unfortunately. If Povetkin could punch hard he'd be ideal.....or if Haye could apply consistent forward pressure effectively he'd be ideal....or if Adamek were 25lb naturally bigger & could replicate his 175lb style at heavy he'd be ideal....as is the porridge isn't quite right with anyone.

But all 3 are perfectly respectable opponents in any case and I'll tune in very happily for any of those fights.

 

Even the 1970's had a lot of guys who couldn't do all that you need to beat Wlad, Hut.

Guys like Quarry and Chuvalo were top ranked contenders then. They both had serious deficiencies.

 

No doubt. I'm not ragging on Povetkin, Haye and Adamek & I consider all three good fighters (Peter isn't). It'll just take something particular to beat either brother.

 

Yep.

Maybe Father Time will do it to Vitali first.

 

FWIW, I think Povetkin's style is best suited to beating Wlad (ie somebody who goes forward aggressively & with enough volume and variety to get Wlad moving backwards & thinking enough to dampen the output of his jab) and Haye's best suited to beating Vitali (ie somebody who'll make Vitali lead then pot shots in and out with quick feet).

Unfortunately a lack of 1 punch power and punch resistance respectively would make both at least 2/1 underdogs in both cases in my book.:shadow:

 

Povetkin is lacking the balls to even get in the ring with the Klitschko's.

I think a lot of people just underestimate how good the guys that Wlad beats are. He just beats them so good they look like shit. I can't fucking believe people really think Adamek and Haye, two seriously undersized HW's are better than the guys Wlad has already beaten. You will all be saying the same old shit when they both get smashed by a Klitschko. If either of those two actually fought someone with a pulse, you'd probably realize this, they are avoiding good fighters for a reason. A pay day and a loss to either Klitscho is what they are both after.

 

I think there's something to your general point, but frankly Ruiz and Valuev are no worse than the guys either Klit has been beating. Their records against common opponents & common opponents of common opponents etc makes that pretty clear. And combined with his Cruiserweight accomplishments & just his gross speed and power, I think there's some basis in the Haye hype as a slightly more dangerous opponent at least.

 

Everyone will be calling Adamek and Haye shit after they both get KO'd.

Mark my words, nothing will change after those fights.

 

I'm not sure who the Klits have fought, other than Peter going into the first Wlad fight had ANY hype behind them. And Wlad basically rolly pollied over the finishing line like a drunk in that one. Certainly none of the type a Haye fight would generate. Even Povetkin has probably had more promotion than anyone I remember either ever fighting.

But either way, we'll see. I think respect will continue to begrudgingly build if they continue to clear up. Make no mistakes, they're already better regarded than they were two years ago (among hardcore fans that is) and perceptions continue to improve. It's just hard for two guys to garner much laurels without either an exciting style or a marque fight. Especially as non Americans.

Lewis faced allot of the same challenges but as time went by his standing continued to grow, it's a process.

 

Anyway, we have a record of it here - I regard Povetkin and Haye as good opponents. So Im one guy at least who won't dismiss them after the fact. Adamek, I think could beat a fair few good heavyweights, but I don't think he presents any challenge to the Klits. Regardless, beating him would be a respectable notch on their ring post in my book.

 

Don´t know what the big difference is supposed to be anyway? Wlad learned to hold and pace himself. That is not really monumental. It´s not like Puritty or Brewster beat Wlad with their boxing skills. They waited till Wlad fell over from exhaustion. Sanders was the only fighter that beat Wlad with his boxing skills.

 

I think the gear has helped him quite a bit.

 

please leave this "gear" stuff...

Not everyone you don't like that is doing well is on gear!

 

Wlad is on gear. Like it or not.

 

Evidence?

 

:laugh11:

 

What do you base this on and why are you acting like it's fact just because you say so?

 

Face it. The brothers have been rumbled......http://www.eunova.de/

 

::

 

Vitali looks freaky when he creaks into a smile:giggle:

Looks like Vigo, the Scourge of Carpathia, the Sorrow of Moldavia!

 

The guy from Ghostbusters?:scratcher::laugh11:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA5f_cZ_Iyo#t=2m35s

::

 

How do you get the youtube video to start just where you want it to?

 

http://youtubetime.com/

Can't seem to get it to embed though. Im sure I have before but it's being a jebroni today.