Catch weights good or bad?

Personally I think they suck especially when a challenger gets his way. If you are challenging a champion for his tin at a certain weight class then the maximum weight allowed should be what it is. I see that the Martinez/Williams rematch is now at a catch of 157. Why the restrictions? If its middleweight then its middleweight period. Its an obvious ploy to somehow get an advantage. Roach asked Shane to make 143. They then challenged Cotto but at 145. Hop with his 170 gig. And now this bogus 154 title with the same characters at 151. I'm sure the crooks at the governing bodies are hoping for 34 divisions by 2020.

 

Bad because we can't have people prancing around as the 157 lb. champion

 

I can live with them if they aren't for a title or if theyre a once off. No one should be making a career out of them.

 

catch weights should not be for titles, period. and they should fight 10 rounds.

 

Catchweights are the greatest thing to happen to boxing since Hector Camacho Jr.

 

This.

 

The last thing big fights need are LESS rounds.

 

I absolutely hate them, and quite honestly have yet to see the occasion where it was absolutely necessary.

There are already 17 weight classes and thousands of fighters at each weight. If an opponent is too big or small for you to fight, then find someone else at your weight.

 

Catchweights are acceptable only in rare circumstances where a fight simply HAS to be made but the fighters in question are ordinarily too far apart in weight. Otherwise, they are bogus and there certainly should NEVER be any 'world' titles on the line where they do occur.

MTF

 

Pacquiao has abused the shit out of catch-weights. So has PBF.

 

non sequitur and nonsensical within the context of the rest of your post

 

How many has Floyd had, besides the JMM comeback fight?

 

I don't think anyone is a fan of them, but I can appreciate fighters using them to gain a possible advantage.

There are a few obvious options:
1) Do nothing about them. They are infrequent and give us something to bitch about when they occur.
2) Don't watch them when they occur. Good luck with that.
3) Encourage the sanctioning bodies to prohibit them for title fights. As much as you guys bitch about the sanctioning bodies, this is one area where they actually could help you with an agenda. And they might. Catchweights for titles is contrary to their interests. Namely, it takes away from their power and gives it to the fighters.

 

Doing it once is abusing the shit out of something?

 

fuck sanctioning bodies.

 

agreed.

 

In the grand scheme of things, (1) is technically correct. But it happens often enough these days to where it's an issue.

Pac is fighting for the second time in his past three fights at a catchweight, and for a title. Williams-Martinez II is for a catchweight (as was their first fight), which is idiotic considering they fight in the same damn weight class. Alvarez-Baldomir was at a catchweight, for a "silver" belt. Arce-Parra was at a catchweight, and for a title eliminator.

Ratings and fight attendance continues to decline, yet promoters still go about as if business as usual. Every aspect of the sport is self-serving, so don't pretend for a minute that a simplistic view like this will change things.

How is it contrary to their interests? If anything it's more beneficial. They're literally inventing titles to put at stake for these fights. And if you get a case where a fighter suddenly vacates, guess what - they get to sanction another fight. And when said fighter returns? Best believe his next fight is for one of their titles (super, regular, interim, diamond, silver, regional) or a title eliminator.

If the sanctioning bodies gave a fuck about that, they'd tell Pacquiao to either move up to 154 or just not fight for a title at all. But by agreeing to be on board for whatever Pac decides, they stay paid. And getting paid IS their interest/agenda.

 

Yeah the WBC has now adopted the WBA idea of multiple champions per weight division. It´s so bad you almost have to applaud the IBF and WBO for keeping it fairly simply by only recognizing one champion per weight class.

I don´t know why fighters don´t sue the crap out of the WBC and WBA every other week. If I was holding their main belt, and the WBC and WBA created some additional fake belts to please some promoters, I´d make it clear in a letter to them, that I´m available and willing to fight my mandatory, and they would certainly ignore it. Bam I´d sue them for decreasing my champion value and interfering with my potential earnings. If you are lucky they´d find an absurd reason to strip you as an unpleasant champion. Then you bring up the Ali act and every judge gets tears in his eyes thinking of the poor man´s condition. Life as a boxer is so tough. If a unjustified stripping gets Rocky 36 million dollars, that should be worth at least 5 or 10 million dollars.

If you are one of those starving fighters from 122 down, you can´t earn shit anyway. Every time Jorge Arce fought for some WBC interim belt, the real champ should have sued the WBC. Now the WBO sanctions this 10 round catchweight title eliminator for Arce. Too bad he didn´t win, I would have enjoyed the beating Vazquez Jr. would have given him.

Did Maskaeev sue the WBC over that Vitali mandatory episode? I think he was stupid and took the final eliminator against Aguilera as compensation.

 

Catch weights should be banned, period. If a fighter wants to come in light..that's his business...but the other fighter should never be asked to come in light.

 

It takes the power they have and gives it to the fighters agreeing to fight at different weight classes. The sanctioning bodies set the weight classes for their belts. If you can convince them to hold tough and not let fighters agree to fight at a different weight when the sanctioning body is involved, then everyone can get what they want.

There are a few reasons it might work and one big one why it (probably) will not.

Why would it work? Catchweights annoy fans. Catchweights take power from the sanctioning body and give it to the fighters. Catchweights give fans one more thing to bitch about sanctioning bodies even if they aren't at fault. Fans may be able to convince one sanctioning body to take a stand on this issue to gain credibility against the other sanctioning bodies. Getting fans on the side of one sanctioning body may help elevate their belt above the others in the eyes of the fans, eventually leading to more money and power for the sanctioning body.

Why would it not work? Fighters could tell them to fuck off and fight under a different sanctioning body.

The multiple titles stuff is a different argument.

 

The only division I'd like to see catchweights is the heavyweight division...and that's only for one of the fighters..specifically the out-of-shapers like Solis.

They should make him fight in the 220s/230s.

 

Please you don't even know what a non sequitur is. It does follow that catchweight bullshit has the potential to create more divisions and if you cant see that or the trend that has been started then it is you that is suffering from a severe case of sincere delusion.

 

When is the last time sanctioning bodies tried to create a new weight class inbetween other weight classes?

A weight class is defined as being x lbs or below. If fighters want to agree to fight at some weight below x for the belt at x, that doesn't mean the sanctioning bodies are to blame.

Dog shit smells worst when it's fresh.

 

adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit

I did not blame the sanctioning bodies dingbat. I inferred they await with fresh dog shit breath.

 

Your train of thought is lacking and the inferrence you made came out of nowhere and is based on nothing.

 

You cant even spell inference and you are giving me grammatical pointers. You know theirs a guy or two like you on every boxing board. A self proclaimed literary genius who spends his time like a hallway monitor attacking new members or making ridiculous attempts to curb the meaning of what someone says. Run along child seriously. If you want to talk anything boxing be it history or present day I'm your huckleberry and I will wipe the floor with you. If you want to talk shit and log on to argue for argument sake then here's the forum for you. http://www.knittingforums.com/

 

I wasn't giving you grammatical pointers. If I had been, I would have pointed out that you likely meant 'implied' when you used 'inferred.'

I attack everyone when it comes to bullshit accusations against sanctioning bodies. They do enough that can be legitimately criticized that unjustified piling on only hurts legitimate criticism.

Which is exactly what you did when you began this thread.

Whether you can wipe the floor with me when it comes to boxing knowledge remains to be seen and doesn't make you any less wrong in this thread.

 

Hahaha An iq of 30 and it takes 31 to bark.

Getting back to the topic, I don't mind catch weight super fights where two guys agree to meet at some middle point and where a belt or belts are not on the line.

To put today's ever increasing catch-weight extravaganza into perspective one only needs to take a glimpse back at the early 20th century and a boxing world comprised of 8 divisions.

For starters consider Sam Langford. The guy was not much more then a middleweight but knocked out virtually every top heavyweight of the day at least once including Willis, Mcvey or McVea and Jeanette. He never asked for a catch weight and at times was outweighed as much as 40 pounds.Sure he blew up at times but it was largely water weight. To top it off he fought at the end of his career essentially blind.

Moving on we can look at Greb. A middleweight and imo the goat at that weight.. He defeated no less then 7 world light heavyweight champions including Loughran and Rosenbloom.and top pugilist Gibbons as well as handing future heavyweight champion Gene Tunney his only defeat. Many times throughout his 300 plus career, he to was outweighed by 20 or 30 pounds. He never asked for a catchweight. Greb to ended his career blind in one eye caused by the thumbing of Norfolk.

Bare in mind this was an era where fighters at times fought twice a week unlike today's crop of spoiled brat preemies who fight once or twice a year sleeping in silk sheets.

Bump ahead to Armstrong. 27 straight ko's between 1937 and 1938 gathering the 126 crown and even when he jumped to 147 and defended that title a record 19 times he never asked for a catch weight even though he was really nothing more then a water logged lightweight.

 

You don't think creating 'diamond belts' is a particularly unsubtle way of creating classes within classes? Title fights sanctioned at 145lb?

MTF :dunno:

 

No. It's not really anything other than a way to get the WBC involved in the fight even when they really shouldn't be. It's just marketing. I should add that it is very effective marketing as they have gotten way more ink and time than it ever deserved.

It certainly doesn't have anyting to do with creating a new weight class (the point of this thread), it's just the WBC recognizing a big fight (that happened to have a catch weight) and them figuring out a way to be involved.

From the horse's mouth:
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=21722

By Jose Sulaiman
“The WBC Board of Governors has approved by a unanimous vote that the Manny Pacquiao-Miguel Cotto fight, promoted by Bob Arum’s Top Rank, Inc. on November 14 in Las Vegas, will be the first ever for the prestigious WBC Diamond Belt.
“The Diamond Belt was created as an honorary championship exclusively for fights between elite boxers, and Manny Pacqiuao, a three-time WBC world champion in three different weight divisions, and Miguel Cotto, a former WBC International champion, are unquestionably qualified as two of the best boxers of today. The belt is handcrafted by an artisan in Mexico City with 18 carat gold fusion and has about 800 diamonds, emeralds and rubies, as well as 150 Swarovsky semiprecious stones.
“The Diamond Belt has received a tremendous positive response from promoters and media around the world, and we at the WBC are very excited and proud that this important and historic fight will be the first for the Diamond Belt. The WBC will not charge a sanction fee on this extraordinary occasion.â€￾