Is MMA the closest thing to true professional wrestling?

Forget WWE. That should be called performance fighting championship or something. I don't even know why they call themselves "wrestling". MMA is the real venue for amateur wrestlers to go and use their wrestling skills for money..

 

He didn't say they shouldn't call it professional. He said they shouldn't call it wrestling.
::

The funny thing is that until MMA became popular, professional wrestling is how most people though of wrestling.

 

Cage fighting in it's present form (not necessarily the skills displayed by the fighters - but the way it's sold to the public) is a direct off-shoot of pro wrestling. It's all linked to late 80s pro wrestling in Japan.

I don't think it's a coincidence that guys like Godfather and TFK are former pro wrestling fans, while someone like me was embarassed for anyone who watched it for more than five minutes.

 

Having never been a pro wrestling fan nor having watched it in my entire life, I am very curious about the MMA-Pro Wrestling link.

How is cage fighting in it's present form, a 'direct off shoot' of pro wrestling.

I am not being facetious here, I really didn't know that and would love to see the connection.

I am very familar with the origins of the UFC and it's ties to vale tudo tournaments, but didn't know that MMA was a pro wrestling spin off.

 

No problem. Take a look at the origins of "shoot fighting" and an organization called "Shooto", to start.

 

I am very familar with shoot fighting and the organization.

So is that the link between present day MMA and pro wrestling you were talking about?

 

Well, to be fair, it's one part Gracie/Vale Tudo and one part Japanese Pro Wrestling. Perhaps you've never read up on the history of MMA, but there's some pretty good material out there.

 

:: I am actually quite well-read on the history of MMA. And that is probably why I wouldn't make the comment:

"It's all linked to 80's pro wrestling in Japan"

....like you did.

Modern MMA is far more closely a relative to Vale Tudo fighting than original shoot fighting. Any idiot who has even a tad of knowledge of the original shoot fighting rules would know that. Hell, the Shooto Organization didn't even originally allow striking. They borrowed that fantastic idea from Vale Tudo.

Maybe you should read some of the "good material" you suggest and get back to me.

:atu:

 

I'll break it down as simply as I can for you, man.

Shoot fighting comes from Japanese Pro Wrestling, yes?

Shooto was a shoot fighting competition when it started, yes?

Shooto was the company that put on the popular Vale Tudo tournaments in the mid 90s that featured Rickson Gracie, yes?

The popularity of those Vale Tudo tournaments spawned the creation of PRIDE, yes?

PRIDE 1 featured several (at least four, to my memory) Japanese Pro Wrestlers, yes?

You wouldn't tell me you don't see the link between PRIDE and modern day MMA, would you? I doubt it.

Look Trplsec, when I take the time to explain something to you it's because I know what I'm taking about. I already made you look stupid to the point you couldn't reply to my last post in a thread yesterday. You're a glutton for punishment, man.

 

:: The day you make me look stupid in a thread is the day I quit posting. You seriously don't have near the intelligence for that.

Don't blame me because you referred to modern MMA as ""It's all linked to 80's pro wrestling in Japan"

Vale Tudo fighting in Brazil dates back to the 20's and is far more close to modern MMA rules than what the Shooto Organization started with.

Modern MMA has a multitude of roots and many started long, long before Shooto or Vale Tudo for that matter.

But again, to make a blanket statement like "It's all linked to 80's pro wrestling in Japan" is just moronic on any level or in any context.

You really aren't nearly as sharp as you think.

"It's ALL linked to 80's pro wrestling in Japan":atu:

 

I wonder if I need to explain to Steve that Vale Tudo 'spawned' the UFC before it spawned Pride.

 

And in my very first post in this thread... what did I say in brackets? Not necessarily the fighting style, but the promotion.

You can't dispute a SINGLE point I made in my last post. But nice laughing emoticons.

 

You don't know as much as you think you do. The tournaments put on by Shooto, called Vale Tudo (as I pointed out in my post) were held in Japan in the mid-90s and spawned PRIDE.

But you knew that, right?

 

Are you disappointed that MMA is very closely linked to pro wrestling, Trplsec? If it wasn't for pro wrestling, PRIDE never would have existed. Kinda embarassed about that? It's cool man, it's not a huge deal. Personally, I think pro wrestling is for fags but if you like it I won't judge.

 

Actually yes, I clearly disputed this point:



"It's ALL linked to 80's pro wrestling in Japan":atu:


Again, do the research and get back to me.

I could just as moronically say that "it is all" tied to no holds barred carnival fighting.

Damn. TFK was right. Too easy.

 

My last post, you meatball. Not my first one. Can you go one post without misunderstanding me?

 

An you bring up TFK? The guy who wasn't man enough to keep posting here? ::

 

Now you're bothering me. Do I really have to give a remedial class here.

Vale Tudo is a Portugese term and describes events held in Brazil dating back to the 20's.

The basic rules of Vale Tudo fighting were the foundation behind the early UFC and Pride.

And yes, Vale Tudo Tournaments in Japan gave birth to Pride and also influenced striking rules being added to Shooto.

Seriously. Should I charge for the this..

 

I understand you clearly. I especially understood when you said:

"It's ALL linked to 80's pro wrestling in Japan":atu:

I don't care if that was in your 1st or last post, it is moronic and where I take exception.

It's a completely retarded generalization no matter when or where you said it.

 

Yes, I know all of this.

Who held the popular Vale Tudo tournaments in Japan that spawned pride? Vale Tudo 1994 and 1995. Who put those shows on?

 

MMA as we know it is linked to 80s pro wrestling in Japan. That's a factual statement. Forget the word all. That was foolish on my part.

Let's not allow my aggresive first post to distract from these simple facts that are available to anyone that wants to find them.

 

Sure, MMA is linked to many things including pro wrestling. It is not however, ".... ALL linked to 80's pro wrestling in Japan" as you originally said.

I have no problem allowing you to recant your original statement and adjusting it. I am fair like that.

 

Cool.

To be fair, I took that back many posts ago. As I said, it's Vale Tudo/Gracie and Japanese Pro Wrestling. Combined they evolved and now you have modern MMA.

Post 8...

 

Back to the thread starters question...

Yes, MMA is by far the closest thing to true pro wrestling. From Shamrock and Severn to Brock Lesnar, cage fighting gives these guys an avenue to make a living outside the world of pro wrestling.

 

TKF is a puss if he really left for good, even if I hated you all, you would still never get rid of me!!! ::

 

Him or me! athetic::laughing:

 

If Andrew and I had a real spat, I'd be on here more often just to fuck with his Canadian ass. And then I'd make fun of Michael J. Fox and Wayne Gretzky and Mathew Hilton. But never Shania Twain.

 

Over here actual Olympic style wrestling is a very traditional and popular sport. To me, that is professional wrestling

 

MMA is the combination of martial arts. It's origins definitely go earlier than 1980s Japanese pro wrestling. Vale Tudo goes back much earlier than the 1980s, and that's what the Gracie family, among other Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners, competed in throughout the 20th century. Professional wrestling used to be a truly competitive endeavour, catch wrestling, with one guy often breaking something on the other guy in order to win.

For that matter, Japanese pro wrestling has roots in Karate, Judo, Sumo, and Jiu Jitsu. I think where people are uncomfortable with the MMA-pro wrestling connection is that today's professional wrestling is an exhibition with a predetermined outcome and not two or more guys trying their hardest to beat each other for the win. People don't want that associated with MMA.

In MMA, the goal is to win---not to make the other guy look good so he can become more popular with the audience.