I originally asked this question in the mm forum. Somebody said Wlad has no heart but since mythical match ups forum has as much traffic as say Arturo gatti's bedroom (the poster's) then I decided to post this here..So tell me why do people say he has no heart ? To me Wlad's heart seems just fine I don't know why people say he has no heart? Every time he got dropped he got up for more. Every fight he lost either the corner or the referee stopped it. The guy never stayed on his stool and said he had enough. When things weren't going his way he didn't foul out. He didn't say no mas he always fought on. His heart is just fine I think. Thoughts ?
"Heart" is one of the tougher categories in boxing (or really any sport) to judge/rank. I wouldn't call Wlad heartless, but he hasn't been the most impressive when it comes against opponents that provide resistance. His reactions to anybody getting even slightly the better of him don't inspire confidence.
precisely he's not Hector Camcho Jr. but he isn't going to make anyone forget Matthew Saad Muhammad either
I think it was Sdunek and the corner that threw in the towell against purritty back in 1943. Heart didn't come into play in his other two losses and he gutted it out against Peter in their first fight. Saying he doesn't have heart is just speculation based on nothing, but hopes.
As I said in the other thread - heart to me includes all aspects of how somebody responds to adversity, not just physical bravery. It includes composure, self belief and the ability to think under pressure. Wlad panics. Even in a couple of rounds of the last Peter fight you could see him start to fluster. That weakness is still there and I would basically call it a lack of heart since it precludes him coming back from serious adversity in hard fights, even though he doesn't necessarily lack physical bravery.
I think that is reaching, since Wlad didn't lose a round, probably not even a minute in that fight. If he can do that panicking, then I don't see the problem
Watching it back, it will hardly be perceptible, but as I was watching it live I was getting nervous for him in one of the middle rounds, he just seemed to LOSE his composure and start to doubt himself for half a round or so & get a bit shaky and grabby. He has those demons in there.
He wasn't panicking, he was just getting slightly flustered. And for no particular reason, either. He just started backing off and grabbing instead of controlling the range like he had been & you could see in his face he was having a moment of self doubt and loss of focus. Bottom line, he doesn't have the kind of intractable self belief that characterizes guys with what I'd consider elite heart; ie the ability to come back from moments of really fight threatening adversity. I don't mean that as some huge, huge criticism....Tyson had lots of physical bravery too, but he didn't have that kind of self belief or ability to adapt or think either. He was still pretty useful, as is Wlad. If you go to the rd by rd of the fight you'll see what round it was I was talking about. I think it was around the 5th, I don't have a copy of the fight to watch back.
Wlad is sackless, but he's also smart in the ring. When Peter was bashing him around he was holding like a baby holds his bottle. But he got passed the storm and rallied back. Other issues could have been stamina problems.
Wlad may get up every time he's dropped, but he tends to lose self belief when faced with adversity..and that is a knock on his heart. He has more heart than a guy like Cintron...but he doesn't have heart to compare him with a Holyfield or an Ali.
On what do you base that? Is there an example where he has lost his self believe so that it has affected his fighting?
You could see it clearly in the sanders fight. CLEARLY. The moment he was clocked a couple times..he lost all composure and his eyes were filled with fear and doubt. Same with the first Brewster fight. I'm a Wlad fan, always have been...said many times that he's perhaps the best offensive fighter in the history of the heavyweight division...but fair is fair....his heart isn't up to the highest level. Nigel benn..had a soft chin too...but you could see that he was always trying to win the fight, even when hurt. Wlad gets up..when he's badly hurt...but he's not putting a serious effort to win.
Wlad also fought absolutely terrified in the first Peter fight. He must have slumped to the canvas in fear about 5 times from anticipated/imaginary punches.
I see your point with these fights but I am not sure if I agree. It could be argued that the Sanders fight was about Wlad's inexperience: he couldn't see the punch coming and didn't know what to do when hurt, so he was pretty helpless. The same way when Cassius Clay had his eyes burning against Liston: he became clueless for a moment and he actually wanted out of the fight. He however could gather himself: Wlad at that night didn't have the time. After that fight I have not seen Wlad lose his composure. In my opinion it is not important how fighters eyes or facial expression look: what is important is how he does. And ever since Wlad has been able to come back from difficulties. Now even though I am a Wlad fan (and I have an agenda and I am biased euro-nuthugger and whatever) I have no problem accepting if his heart was not all that. I just think it gets exaggerated way too much - in nearly every MM you see him 'not having the heart' to win - and in most cases that claim is based on nothing at all.
It's Difficult to Discern "Heart" in Guys that RARELY have to Fight from Behind, so to Speak...Fans & Writers QUESTIONED the Heart of Cassius Clay, but Now that he Can Barely Wipe his Own Ass, we All KNOW he Had Heart All Along... Guys like Wlad, Roy Jones, Lennox, etc., RARELY had to Fight from Behind...They were Soooooo DOMINANT that Heart Wasn't a Quality they HAD to Exhibit, Necessarily...Nonetheless, REED would Say Wlad Showed Traces of Heart in the 1st Peter Fight, Roy Showed Heart in the 1st Tarver Fight & Lennox Showed Heart in the Mercer & Bruno Fights... Floyd Mayweather Certainly WOULDN'T Register HIGH on the "Heart" List Either, but he Showed it Against Corley, Castillo (1st Fight) & Mosley... REED Won't Punish Wlad Because he's Not LIMITED like a Gatti, Ward or Saad Muhammad...Wlad Doesn't HAVE to Dig Deeeeeeeeeep All that Often, but it Doesn't Mean that he Couldn't or Wouldn't.... REED:dancingBaby:
You nailed it here. Way too many people confuse 'heart' with 'poor defense'. Just because a fighter walks forwards but is unable to block or slip a shot, doesn't mean that he has great heart
Very true, but there are cases where a fighter HAS to do things like that regardless of their abilities because they aren't left with other options. That shows heart.
The thing is Wlad has been beaten 3 times, none of which were hail mary no-chance-to-recover 1 punch KOs like Lewis's loses. And he spent half the Peter fight cowering on the ground with nerves at Peter's power. So we don't need to speculate with Wlad, like people might have had to with Roy Jones or others since we've seen how he reacts to adversity first hand and it's with a distinct lack of composure. He has become more relaxed in the ring since he started sparring properly but I don't think that kind of coolness can really be taught and I think it'll always rear it's head if and when Wlad faces serious adversity. :TLC:
I think Wlad's fighting style shows a lack of heart. It's not that his fights boring - they are, but that doesn't necessarily show a lack of heart. What shows a lack of heart is that he holds so damn much. He fights like a puss.
It's illegal. And the fact he gets away with it is the fault of referees and the attitudes of fans like you. Boxing is indeed about winning fights. But it's also about entertainment. And it's about following rules.
It is no coincidence that when discussing heart, people bring up Gatti, Ward, Corrales, Morales etc. and seldom guys like Sugar Ray Leonard, who had more will to win than any of them. To me, heart (an overrated thing altogether) is not just about the ability to take a beating.
Then people are wrong.:Thumbs: When I think heart I think Ali, Leonard and believe it or not, even FLOYD. Heart = composure, unshakeable self belief and physical bravery IN THAT ORDER, for me. Those are the elements you need to turn tough situations around, which is what heart is, if it's a meaningful intangible in boxing.
That's a Waaaaaaaaaaaay Toooooooo SIMPLISTIC Way of Looking @ Things, Doub...Fighting "Smart" DOESN'T Make U a "Puss"....If that's the Case, Guys like Margarito & Corrales were COMPLETE DUMBASSES for NEGLECTING their Ever Present HEIGHT & REACH ADVANTAGES, for the Sake of Fighting in the Pocket... Getting IN the Ring Shows a Level of Heart that SUPERCEDES Most "Normal" Men.... After the 1st Fight w/Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns was CRITICIZED for NOT Holding.... REED:kidcool:
