Where does Pacman rank alltime?

Seeing as Duran is one of the best P4P fighters of all time, that's hardly a knock ::

You say "a guy like Roberto Duran" as if he is an average fighter. He's one of the best fighters in boxing history.

Pacquiao is top 5 now without a doubt. Like I said, just compare his recoed and fight footage to any fighter in history.

In terms of both record AND ability/talent, he's at least on par with ANY fighter in history.

Pacquiao is at least as good as any fighter on your record. We're talking about a guy who started his career at flyweight slapping around big welterweights in 1 sided fights.

By the way, putting Chavez above him as absolutely laughable. Are you kidding? Is this some kind of insane joke?

Not only is Chavez's record utter SHIT compared to Pacquiao's, but Pacman would give Chavez a 1 sided beating at 140. As would Duran.

Pacquiao and Duran are comparable. Pacquiao and Chavez are not.

 

Ray.

 

Chavez would beat Duran. Chavez's title fight record prior to Whitaker was 25-0.

Duran's was 14-0 prior to the Leonard rematch. Then Benitez loss...then Laing.

Fuck Duran.

 

The PED question looms over this discussion, whether or not anyone wants to admit it or not

BUT, ASSUMING HE IS CLEAN, I would feel quite comfortable ranking him in the top 15

 

That's the most hilariously absurd thing I've read.

Chavez beat mostly bums. Chavez would beat Duran? How exactly?

Duran did everything better than Chavez, everything. Duran wouldn't have just beaten Chavez, he would have given him an absolute beating. It would be more 1 sided than the Palomino fight for example, because at least Palomino was bigger than Duran. Chavez had nothing on Duran and was slightly smaller. Chavez was slow and had worse defense than Duran, he would have been schooled.

Pop in Chavez Vs Taylor and Whitaker, then watch Duran Vs Palomino and Leonard. Then tell me how exactly slow, 1 dimensional little Chavez would beat Duran? The answer is he wouldn't. He wouldn't even be competitive with Duran.

Fuck Chavez.

 

Historically, it is Duran, not Chavez, who is over-rated...& Chavez would give Duran a terrific fight. A terrific fight. The style mesh would make life difficult for both men.

All that said, I'd be pretty surprised if Chavez beat him. He was a beast at 135lbs, but the truth is Duran did virtually everything better --- to differing degrees, mind, but better, nonetheless. Chavez would make a great fist of it, to re-iterate. This would not be one-sided.

However, Duran would very likely be the winner.

 

You are putting WAY too much stock into Pac starting out at flyweight. You have brought this up again and again!

Read carefully........

We were all flyweights when we were fucking 13.:dunno:


It can be argued that Pac wasn't even a better fighter than Marquez or a before he was losing to fighters like Raheem, Morales!!! Those two fighters are very good, but not in anyone's top 20 ATG list.

Then we move on to your "he was a flyweight" fixation. Well, what he has accomplished is awesome, but it's not like it hasn't ever been close to having being done, or that it couldn't have been done. Start SRL or DLH pro a few yrs younger and it's probably done.

Catchweights do take away from Pac's legacy, I'm sorry but that is a factor for me and it should be for you. I don't care what weight Pac fought at when he was 12 years old, it's where your at now, as a grown ass man. If your a welterwieght, then be....a welterweight!

 

:tick::doh:

 

Is Pacquiao the best ever?



http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-pacgreat111410

 

NO god dammit!!! NO!!!!

 

Apparently Pacquiao is now Secretariat

 

Dude, Chavez took Rosario's shots like candy and raped him in the process. No way Duran or Pacquiao beats up Chavez @ 135 lbs like you're suggesting. Chavez deserves more respect than that.

 

I'd have him in my top ten without doubt. We will not see the likes of this guy again for a very, very long time...

MTF

 

You're a madman

Please justify the following..considering Manny has won titles or linear belts from flyyweight to Jnr Middleweight..and beaten barrera, Morales, Marquez, De La Hoya, Cotto etc:

Fitzsimmons
Pryor
Arguello
Whitaker
Johnson
Basilio
Pep

 

Pacquiao is lightyears better than anyone Duran beat (with the exception of Leonard...and Ray Leonard was not a slugger like he tried to be in that fight and wasn't the agressive volume punching southpaw that pac is).

You guys seriously overrated Duran if you think he'd "bully" Pacquaio. :atu:

Pacquiao is an INCREDIBLE fighter..better overall than Duran. Don't you yet realize this?

 

The Chavez who beat Rosario at 135 beats pacquiao. Pacman beats 140 lb+ Chavez.

Chavez suffers from fighting for so long, that people remember the bad, old version of Chavez. Even in Fight Night, they have him in his 140 lb stage, which is NOT when he was at his best.

Watch the Rosario fight, and at the end listen to how in awe Ray Leonard is...

 

We're watching a true phenom here. Im glad he's around to save this shitty era.

 

To me, Top 20 is selling it a bit short, but I have to select that since I don't quite have him top 10 (though damn close) and that there isn't a Top 15 option in the poll.

If a Floyd fight never happens, I guess the question becomes what's left in order for him to surpass SRR and Armstrong.

 

Top 5. If he beats PBF he gets the #1 spot!

 

THIS is wisdom.

 

I don't like to rank fighters historically until after they are retired. Even then it's usually best a year or two afterward.

If he were to retire tomorrow and never fight again i'd have him at absolute worst top 20.

 

He is floating at 15-20....but right now he is closer to 20 than 15.

I can name 10 guys who would beat him in a fight at any of his weights, bar possibly fly, and that, on it's own, pushes him out of the top 10. Factor in a few guys like Louis, Ali, Marciano, Roy Jones Jr, and he is being pushed to top 20.

The problem is that he has not fought and beaten Mayweather, and the guys whom so much of his rep is based on {Cotto, Hatton, Oscar and Margarito} were such damaged goods, or so limited to begin with, relative to the names on my list, that it's hard for him to stake such a high claim.

Top 20, thats it- for now.

 

Regarding Duran...I say a "guy like Duran" as Duran lost to Hagler, Hearns, Ray Leonard, and, uh, Kirkland Laing. :scratcher:

Not only does Duran beat Manny Pac, but Duran himself is down the list from at least 3 more guys, all of which combines to push Pac out of the top 5, especially once you take Ali, Louis, Marciano etc into account.

Pac is not top 5, not even close, and a small amount of thought explains why {not aimed at you, mind}

 

This is it. Just about the essence of it. What concessions did Henry Armstrong force out of people when he moved up to their division?:dunno::dunno:

None, pretty much.

Consider Henry Armstrong fighting another Filipino, Ceferino Garcia. against whom he surrended 11.5lbs for their title fight. Garcia didn't cut huge weight for that fight nor was he forced down in weight to meet some contractual obligation.

Furthermore, Garcia had knocked out guys like Fred Apostoli, who had himself taken Conn the distance, twice, and Conn had gone up then to HW to take on Joe Louis, which is a real fight of weight disadvantages.

Who was Oscar knocking out at 147 when Manny fought him? Nobody- cos Oscar was a part-retired used-to-be Light-Welter that had one noteworthy stoppage at 154, over Vargas. He hadn't made 147 in years and was STONE DEAD at the weight when they met.

There is much to like about Manny Pac but a swift examination not of his credentials, but those of Oscar, Hatton, Margarito, Cotto is enough to cast aspersions on his claims to anything above top 20.