Your top 5 all-time P4P list

I can't call anyone top 5 P4P all-time if I've never seen them fight. Historians can call me shortsighted, or they can admit the fact that many of the old-timers (pre-30s) were looked at through rose-tinted glasses.

 

That's why I hate these bert sugar wannabees and their bullshit all time lists!

Old timers SUCK in every sport, including boxing. Athletes are getting better.

Roy Jones Jnr would have beaten Greb and Fitzsimmons on the same night most likely. Langford though..I hear was quite special. Punched a dude over the ropes into a sport's writer's lap I read somewhere...drew out a coffin in the ring pre-fight and knocked the opponent out into it. Some would say that the dude was into "Obeah".

 

There's no magic at play here. Athletes are getting better because strength, conditioning & diet changes and improves. In every sport apart from boxing where it's been identical since year dot.

 

Impossible. Jones wouldn't fight them unless they were half dead or about to retire and legally blind.

Cupey

 

Not true. Back in Marciano's days for example it was thought that one huge meal a day is the correct way to eat, while now we know it is not that way. Also in the old days fighters were not supposed to run because "it weakens arms". And now coaches know much more about producing explosive power instead of strength that has been trained traditionally

 

Knowing more & making the improvements are two different things, though. Boxers have regressed in conditioning since Marciano's day --- in part, this is a result of the change in weigh-in procedures (below HW, obviously) & the switch from fifteen to twelve rounds. The sport is more about power & explosiveness today, more about endurance & durability back then.

Away from Boxing, we just flat-generally know more about conditioning, exercise, & sport science at the street-level, between the everyman, than we did in the 50's. Why, then, are obesity rates out of control, & much, much higher than they were when people had a lesser understanding of effective training & nutrition? As I say, knowing something & implementing it don't always go hand-in-hand.

Does anyone honestly believe, for instance, the Heavyweights of today are better athletes than their forerunners from the 50's, 40's, 30's, or even earlier? The majority of them hug & gasp their way through twelve uneventful rounds in an air-conditioned arena...

 

Check the warrior diet out mate. Allot of athletes are returning to eating one huge meal. The bottom line is if protein is in place and insulin levels are managed it doesn't really matter very much how you time your meals.

Re: training, it's barely changed. They all jump rope, do calisthetics, run moderately long distances, hit the bag, speed bag, maybe do some light weights, maybe not etc. The wording of the explanations for why they do things has changed, but really for 99% of fighters it's barely changed at all. And that's reflected in the physiques. In every other sport guys look different because they train different. They carry more muscle and are stronger. That's why they're better athletes. Does Floyd Mayweather have a better physique than Ray Robinson? Does Joe Calzaghe have a better physique than Ezzard Charles? why would they , they train identically. The top coaches have barely learned a thing,. The only exception is the heavyweights. I'd concede that guys like the Klitsckoes and Haye train in a superior manner now. For the lower weights, nothing has changed.

 

.....except the depth of talent/competition and amateur scoring of course.

 

These lists have to be compiled on resume strength and boxing accomplishments, imo. Also you have to rate the fighter relative to how he competed within his era.

Otherwise you bring way too much subjectivity into the mix.

Styles make fights and I don't think you can use the logic of who you think would win in a head to head matchup... Hearns beat Duran, Barkely beat Hearns and Duran beat Barkley..... so how the hell do you rate those 3?

I personally think in their primes... Lennox would beat Ali, Ali would beat Holmes but Holmes would beat Lennox.

And in terms of the modern athlete... get outta here. Today's athletes are monumentally better. Vitali would massacre a guy like Rocky Marciano... but do you rate Vitali ahead of Rocky in all time rankings? No way. Rocky competed in his era of heavyweights and never lost, he was the greatest he could be at the time.


These lists are tough - I only have a firm top 3

1. SRR
2. Armstrong
3. Duran

 

That would be one of the most horrific butcherings since the Spanish inquisition.

 

Most of them were.

 

julian jackson was legally blind in one eye when he twice lost to mcclellan. he also won another belt after that.

 

good point :atu:

 

Because he isn't good enough. Not even close.

MTF