Who was more scared of tough competition ?

He wiped the guy out twice.

As for people mentioning Rick Thornberry? Look at David Reid.......getting floored by a guy called Kevin Kelly, a nothing fighter from Australia, in a WBA title fight.

As Enzo Calzaghe said at the time, Joe was getting stick for absolutely pasting these bums, but guys like Reid were getting away with shit performances against equally poor opposition.

Rick Thornberry didn't do any worse vs Sven Ottke than Glen Johnson did....:laugh11: :flip::flip:

 

Again....how did your boy McCellan do against Nigel Benn? He got his lights turned out. But Benn could do fuck all with Eubank. Eubank gave Thompson a better fight than your boy David Haye did.

Eubank was never stopped until his very last fight, on an eye injury, and had KO'd Benn and KO'd Watson.

That's as good as guys like McCellan and McCallum were managing with common opponents, and a damn sight better than Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, and Dan "The Canadian Faggot" Cherry could manage.

 

Eubank came down from 175, not 190. He had a fight planned against a guy called Mark Prince, who was subsequently knocked out by Dariuz Michelczweski in Germany, and whose son was recently stabbed to death by one of your good Somalian friends.

Eubank KO 10 Benn.

Benn Killed to Death in 10 McClellan.

Believe it.:cheer:

 

Whether or not Thomas Hearns...pound for Pound....is better than James Toney isn't the issue (I don't necessarily agree either). What IS the issue is that Hearns was moving up in weight to fight Hagler, and had already been stopped at a lower weight. Jones MOVED UP to fight Toney...who was undefeated..and who had beaten Nunn, Barkley, McCallum among others.

Therefore...Toney was the greater challenge and therefore greater achievement than Hagler beating Hearns...IMO.

 

Unlike Hearns, though, Toney came in at less than 100%.

 

But we're talking about taking on tough challenges, with all due respect Ramonza.

Jones wasn't to know that Toney would come in less than 100% (if that's the case). Jones only knew that he was taking on the undefeated P4P #1 (in many people's minds)..and moving up in weight to do it. Doesn't exactly sound like a guy scared of challenges....

Toney was more of a challenge, respectively, than hearns was at the time. Hagler knew that Hearns had already been stopped at Welterweight by a smaller less powerful man than himself in Ray Leonard.

 

Okay, we'll give you the Toney matchup. What else you got?

 

Apart from that I got nuthin' ::

Seriously though...moving up to heavyweight to fight Ruiz required some cojones. Virtually unheard of at the time for a former Middleweight to challenge for a Heavyweight Title. I never saw Hagler leave the comfort of 160lbs for example....and I remember all of his high profile fights being against former lightweight and Welterweights and super welterweights.

Also moving back down to take on Tarver is no small thing. Tarver was always a dangerous banger and a huge Lightheavyweight.

 

Roy beat all the Hopkins' Hill's, Johnson's, Telasco's and Griffin's of his era.

The man never truly ducked anyone. The knock on him is that he fought complete bums instead of more Telasco's, Woods', etc.

Even the most hardcore Roy haters can only say he ducked Jirov and Darius.

Of course, after that highway robbery in Seoul, I don't blame Roy for not chasing Darius to a place where he'd have to damn near kill the man to win a decision, and Darius to my knowledge wouldn't come to Roy.

As for Jirov, I didn't really hear too much about that guy, so I'm just guessing those people were grasping at straws.

 

Admittedly, that's fair enough.

 

:scratcher::scratcher:

 

Mayweather was very much a fight fans' dream in his earlier days, & he doesn't get enough credit for that. He hunted the big names --- but that was then, this is now, & in the now, he has been a major, major disappointment.

 

I don't think the question is being answered here.

The question refers to being most scared of tough competition.

That, clearly, is Mayweather.

It's not a vote on who had the better resume. It's a vote on tough competition.

When Roy fought Ruiz, what restrictions did he contractually impose, or attempt to impose on Ruiz?

When Roy came down from Hvy, and fought Tarver, at 175, what contractual obligations, in terms of weight, did he impose, or attempt to impose, on Tarver? What weight advantages did he seek for himself?

Who was the tougher competition? Tarver, for an ashen and badly dehydrated Jones, or 144lb and too-heavy Juan Manuel Marquez, for the now 160lb Mayweather, who had such a gross weight advantage, both in terms of lean mass and the absence of weight-making stresses, that he refused to do an unofficial weigh-in for HBO

When Jones moved up to 160 to fight Hopkins, what weight requests did he make? Yet Mayweather would not take the fight with Hatton unless it was at 147- despite Mayweather having had ample opportunity to make it at 140 when both were at that weight.....

James Toney may have been drained....but that was Toneys own fault. Roy, unlike Mayweather, was not responsible for issues of weight pertaining to his opponents.

Better resumes do not always make for tougher fights. Corrales barely made weight for Mayweather.

Castillo KO'd Corrales but was Corrales tough that night? Not as tough as he would have been had Corrales not been facing a much bigger opponent.

 

Sound post.

In my case, I was just making the point that Mayweather actively sought out the hard challenges & the belts attached to them...once.

 

Yes- from 130-135 he definitely looked for the big fights.

He knocked out Manfredy and Genaro Hernandez at a very early stage of his career, both were potentially hazardous fights and Mayweather barely dropped a minute of either fight. He then unified with Corrales and beat Castillo, and rematched him after a close first fight. He then also fought and beat a host of tough challenges from guys like Famosito Hernandez etc.

It's from 140 on that Floyd starts to pick more Cherries than United Fruit.

Floyd was a master at making it look like he was taking huge risks...like Oscar at 154- which he barely won. Oscar at 154 was a travesty, even in 2001, Oscar was shit at 154. By 2007 he was no better. But Floyd made out he was in the Lions den.:shit:

 

How Bout a QUIT List???....



REED:mj:

 

Roy NEVER reached the level of pussydom that Floyd has attained.

Ive ALWAYS seen Floyd as just an alternative Roy anyway. Despite the fact that Floyd became a bigger star then Roy ever was... the 90's Roy was a better fighter then Floyd, more dominate, and had a more electrifying style.

 

End thread. Not much more that needs to be said.

 

Mayweather has never been a 160lb fighter, the most he has weighed in at was 150.

Hatton wanted the fight at 147, so he could keep his 140lb title if he lost.

 

Dude...

Neither fighter was a pussy. This is just a hater's thread....hating on the two best talents in boxing for the last 15 years...that both happen to be arrogant African Americans (Yes....I played "the card").

As such I refused to vote in this poll. The premise is wrong.

Floyd has been disinterested in boxing since the De La Hoya fight. It's not "pussydom", it's lack of interest. De La Hoya was his ultimate goal...and he achieved that (and I thought he was nuts to take that fight given Oscar's size and skill combination). Hence multiple retirements. Yet..whenever faced with a challenge he comes back. Came back to face undefeated Hatton who called him out. Say what you want about Hatton now (hindsight is 20-20)..but at the time the dude was 43-0 and had wiped out Castillo and Tszyu and was one of the top 5 P4P fighters in the world. Floyd then took time off again and then in his 2nd fight after the comeback faced Shane Mosley...considered by many as no less than #2 Welterweight..after his destruction of Margarito (which Pac couldn't even do recently). Also..people want to hate on him beating up on Marquez....Marvin Hagler faced a former LIGHTWEIGHT himself...people don't hate on him. You may say "well that former lightweight was DURAN...aka Superman"...but don't act like Marquez hadn't proven himself great also with wins over Barrera, Diaz, Casamayor and a draw with Pacquiao. The PRINCIPLE is the same...I don't care that his name isn't "Duran".

This thread is a con. I refuse to dignify it by making a poll choice.

[edited to remove flame-bait]

 

I don't think either were scared. I think both just felt like if they were getting paid millions for fighting Telesco and Baldomir why should I bother doing more? Both felt entitled to recognition just being so good rather than for doing anything with the talent.

 

again,...I don't think that's fair.

Fighting De La Hoya at 154lbs..when you were a lightweight relatively recently...takes a lot of courage. De La Hoya still looked "handy" in his previous outing against Mayorga. Fighting Oscar at that point was MORE OF A CHALLENGE than any Welterweight in the world. More than a green Cotto, unproven Margarito/Cintron or even Mosley at that time.

 

You're right. But I think it was about risk/reward calculations. He needed that fight to establish himself as the big star/earner. He wasn't really at that stage before that fight, the reward was far greater than what he had to protect.

As I said, I don't think Floyd is scared at all. I just don't think he has any intrinsic motivation to achieve great things in boxing either. He's a got a hustlers mentality, fundamentally.

 

roy's never been called out by the public to face one specific guy. if there was one guy who truly went out of his way to get a fight w/ roy and it was tarver.

i was watching espn yesterday and chris boussard and two other guys were talking about bernard hopkins' comments on pac not fighting black fighters. even those analysts were saying that it's floyd who needs to make the fight happen.

has there ever been a case where the public (including regular sports broadcasters and just casual fans) made this much of a deal between two fighters? perhaps it goes back to leonard/hagler, but i think this might be even bigger.

i like mma but i doubt fans will cry and bitch if st. pierre never moved up and fought anderson silva.

 

joony, come the f on.

 

Agreed, entirely.

 

i don't really count d-mich, eubank or benn. no one stateside (aside from hardcore fanatics and max kellerman) gave a fuck about those fights.

i do stand corrected. jones should've fought hopkins right after hopkins beat tito. there was some media coverage on that potential fight and it would've been pretty big imo.

 

Michalczewski is the one opponent that Roy has no excuse for not fighting except for being afraid. Even HBO jumped on the bandwagon, it wasn't just Max. It wasn't anything like Pacq/Mayweather, but very few examples exist like that. It was clearly a case of the public calling out a fighter to fight another fighter. Sure, Roy had (and has) plenty of excuse-makers for not fighting Dariusz, but the fact that he needed excuse-makers proves the point.

Eubank, Benn, Collins, Calz...these are just noteworthy fighters that Roy avoided, but they aren't that similar to what happened with Michalczewski.

 

michalczewski was an unknown commodity in the states. perhaps hbo could've done better than just showing highlights of his win over montell griffin. the only US televised fight i could recall is his title winning effort vs. hill on abc or cbs.

 

Darius would have given Roy a very tough fight.