My thoughts on tonight

Far from it. It's Kellermans methodology, or lack thereof, which warrants criticism. Kellerman had no business, in 1999, concluding that Klitschko would never add up to anything a la Roy Jones, just as he had no business concluding that Roy Jones would not suffer devestating setbacks of his own, which he eventually did. Guys with any experience of the game should not be making those mistakes. A year is a long time in boxing, 10 of them is an age.

Kellermans commentary in the Jones-Calzaghe fight was riddled with snide, sniping attacks. I'm not going to go into them all in detail, but, by way of a taster, he alleged that Jones was making Calzaghe look like, as quoted, a "washed up Tito Trinidad"- a joke of a comment, considering that when he made it Joe had already risen from a forearm smash to the face to begin almost immediately to take control of the fight from the moment the referee finished the count.

Once Joe asserted control, Kellerman then began some shit about how old Roy was and how he was still faster than Joe, as he is saying this, Calzaghe is standing in front of Joe with his hands down, laughing. It wasn't even what Kellerman was saying, it was how badly his utterances stacked up against what was transpiring in the ring under his fucking nose.

That may have a lot to do with not just the age gap, but pertinently, the generation gap. Merchant has seen what he regards as the classics, the great fighters, and worked their fights. As is always the case, men regard their era as superior to that of their successors, and in this case Merchant may well be justified in having little faith or interest in what he regards as a weakened scene.

So do HBO, by not broadcasting as many of the big fights as they can, and then ripping people off for rubbish. Yet Kellerman thought little of leaving ESPN to join HBO, whereas Merchant was at HBO, ab initio.

Again, the generation thing kicks in. That said I will offer this much: if Merchant is pissed off with todays scene he should just quit, rather than hanging back to mock whats left. But Kellerman needs to get real and stop taking cheap shots like a grudge carrying bitch. If he doesn't like Hattons performance against Urango then tough. Say that there and then and leave it at that. Don't wait 2 years to stick the knife in while interviewing a guy who at present has achieved one small piece of what Hatton has. It's like interviewing Tyson post Holmes and telling him how much better he had looked than Norton.

Nope. He said it with 20 seconds left in the 2nd, Joe had totally owned the fight from the knockdown on, Roy totally lost the 2nd round, but landed one nice right hand which Calzaghe laughed off, and then Max jumps in and says that "at this point of the fight ....etc". Joe was in his comfort zone, Roy snaps his head back with the right and Joe laughs it off. Its asinine. Kellerman was talking so much shit about how much Roy had slowed down....but declined to mention that Joe was, what, 37 years of age? Please.

Joe had IMMEDIATELY gone on the offensive and was swiping away furiously after the knockdown, something Trinidad hadn't even managed in their fight. As it happens Joe was more than comfortable. Compubox for the 1st? Roy landed 9 punches. Joe landed 13. Not at all Trinidad-esque. You telling me Joe Cal looked like Trinidad in there in the 2nd?

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Well listen to Max's commentary. "Jones has devestating power the reason he hasn't scored more KO's is because he thinks safety first often-times" :laugh11: :: Sounds awfully like somebody we know.:nana: Plus the relative downs Jones has suffered and been suffering since 2004 have closed the gap an awful lot. Of much more interest to me is not just what Kellerman said, per se, but rather that he wanted it to be true, as much as he believed it to be true.

I don't hate Max Kellerman, I can promise you. I just know what I am looking at.

 

Maidana.

 

:doh:

 

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Kellerman with 20 seconds left in the 2nd: "At this point of the fight, Roy Jones is making Joe Calzaghe look like a washed up Felix Trinidad"

Kellerman with 20 seconds left in the 3rd: "Calzaghe is standing in front of Jones, with his hands down, showboating, and carrying the round"

:doh: :doh:

 

I thought Akeem deserved the decision though.

I recently watched part of an episode of Gangland where they talk about Quiroga's murder. The guy was killed in an argument over a Scarface poster.

 

And Akeem died in, allegedly, an illegal fight back home in Nigeria.

Fucks sake...dying over a scarface poster. Idiots.:crying:

 

Quiroga was killed by a piece of shit in a motor-cycle gang.

 

Yeah. This is the segment I was talking about:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P72gT6Efdiw#t=4m20s

 

It seems like yo have selected your new limited brawler of the month to overrate. Maidana is not very good. The only reason he got back in the fight is because Kahn doesn't know how to fight on the inside at all and he doesn't take much of a shot. Bradley would beat Maidana, much easier than Amir.

 

I had it 113-112 for Maidana and I would have had it 114-112 had he not been given a bullshit no-warning deduction

even if you scored that fight for Khan (a close decision for either guy would be alright in my eyes) to act is if he was convincing is pretty strange

he jumped all over the guy like a house on fire then started to get a bit spooked by the fact that Maidana wasn't going anywhere and in the final 1/4 of the fight he basically SURVIVED

I said Maidana was Shit before Khan fought him and that if Khan was anywhere near as good as his supporters think he is, he would win EASILY... you can find me saying this in the MM section, in case you doubt it

if Khan was anything special, he would have beaten the shite out of this guy... instead he survived him

 

Bradley has already beaten Witter, {a Witter who was still capable, unlike when Alexander stopped him} and for me that fight is key to how Bradley may well do versus Khan. We know this flash-in-the-pan stuff will only faze Bradley for so long.

Bradley, crucially, can maintain the activity rate. What killed Maidana was that he was too tired when he got Khan hurt to hit and hit again. Bradley won't get tired.

Critically, the issue then becomes how many rounds Bradley is behind by the time he has closed the distance and is whacking away to the body and head of Khan in the clinches.

 

agreed... he did some of that Ray Leonard shoeshining bullshit in the last 10 seconds and Lampley of course had a fucking orgasm... Maidana was pounding Khan over the final 1/4 of that fight

 

To Khans credit, he appears to know how to get into, and then back out of, trouble, a lot of which has to do with how well trained and how well managed he is.

He knows that all he has to do is shoeshine, run a bit, land a flash Harry, and he will get the round, or get it on a card of one judge at least.

 

you can not tell me that Khan was a decisive victor

I scored it 113-112 Maidana

I could see 113-112 Khan too... but to act as if there was an obvious winner to that fight is pretty ballsy of you, Slice... your guy was running for his life down the stretch

 

the idea that Khan was dominating until being hit by the right hand in the 10th is ABSURD

that fight was ALREADY CLOSE when Maidana landed that shot

do you guys score body shots, uppercuts and effective aggression???

 

The impression, privately, amongst the Khanites in the English press is that he got away with it last night. The scoring, the point deduction, the great bodyshot he landed early and the fact that Maidana basically ran out of rounds has forced them to switch tack and come up with "King Khan Wins Hearts" angle.......

.....but mark my words, in two weeks when the desperate, blood-smeared image of Khan running for his life has left their minds, the press will be referring to his "dominant, clear victory". Give me 2, 3 weeks and I'll quote you the articles that do just that.

 

::I don't doubt it, man

 

OK. Well let me never here you say Khan is a good fighter, or a top fighter then. Cause if you do, then it will automatically mean, by way of loigic*, that Maidana is in fact good.


*a concept frequently overlooked for the purposes of propogating an agenda which can't stand up to such, in which a=c and c=b and therefore a=c.

 

Khan is a good boxer and a better athlete, I don't think he is too much of a fighter.

 

agree, though I dont think he is even a particularly gifted boxer... hes just fast and athletic

 

So AGAIN, R U SERIOUSLY Telling REED that EITHER Klit Brother is On Par w/Roy Jones Jr., who is ARGUABLY the Most Naturally Talented Fighter EVER???....If REED Isn't Mistaken, the Direct Comparison was btwn Roy & Wlad & to B Frank, Wlad "Pales" in that Comparison, Pun UNintended...

The Bottom Line is, @ the Moment that Kellerman Compared Calzaghe to a "Washed Up Trinidad", Joe had JUST Risen from the Canvas a Bit Earlier...@ the Time of Kellerman's Comment NOBODY Knew that Calzaghe would Go On to Dominate & Embarrass Jones for the Remainder of the Fight...The Comment Should B LEFT IN The Context in Which it was Spoken...Again, U Make it Seem like Max Uttered the Statement AFTER Calzaghe had Pocketed Several Rounds Already...

Do U DISagree that Jones STILL had Better Handspeed than Calzaghe, @ the Time of their Fight???...Based PURELY on Handspeed, Even a 40+ Year Old Roy Jones is STILL Amongst the 5-10 FASTEST Fighters on the Planet....Not Really Sure WHY U'd Get Bent Out of Shape about Kellerman Stating the OBVIOUS...

The Merchant/Generation Gap Thing is a COPOUT...REED is a Fan of Old School Hip Hop to the Degree that he Feels Younger Rappers AREN'T as Talented as the 1's REED Grew Up Listening To....Nevertheless, that DOESN'T Prevent REED from APPRECIATING Contemporary Hip Hop &/or Finding Aspects of it WORTHY Of Compliments...Merchant Literally Speaks as if he'd Rather B Anywhere Else BUT Ringside...If he Genuinely Feels the Scene is "Weakened" he Should Remove HIMSELF from the Equation...

@ the End of the Day, Max Kellerman is a White Guy who's Earned your Contempt by Criticizing Euro Fighters, while Presumably Adoring Black Fighters Simultaneously...REED Knows what he's Looking @ Too...Your Act is TRANSPARENT, Dude...




REED:hammert:

 

Khan got hit too much by a plodding slow ass un-coordinated hard hitter. WTF was he doing eating so many uppercuts. And the right that caught him in the tenth was a wild one, seen from a mile away. He's talented, but I'm not buying. Loses focus as the fight goes on.

 

I don't think Khan is anything special. He's got some physical gifts with his speed, but his chin is questionable and more importantly, he's sloppy and lacks defense inside. As said by someone earlier, he looks like he went to the Miguel Cotto school of defending uppercuts.

He did better in terms of punch resistance and hurting Maidana than I expected, and his effort was commendable. He's recovered well from the Prescott massacre and done better than many anticipated (he didn't get KTFO) in finally again facing someone who can bang, but Maidana is pretty limited and took Khan to hell and back.

I gained some more respect from Khan last night, but I don't expect a whole lot from him other than being a decent champ/titlist.

 

For openers, I never went so far as to say either of them is on a par with Roy Jones. What I complained about, and forgive me for getting down to specifics here, was a statement, made in 1999, by Max Kellerman, that Wladimir Klitschko's name would not be "mentioned in the same sentence as Roy Jones again"

Who was Kellerman, with Wlad still in his early 20's, to make a comment of that nature? Rocky Marciano isn't on Ali's level in terms of talent, but their respective careers warrant, repeatedly, the naming of both men in the same sentence.

As stated, one year is a long time in boxing. 10 years is An Age. An Age. Wladimir, already a Gold Medallist, has erased much of the stench of his relatively few setbacks. Roy has, since 2004, been adding steadily to his.

You yourself referred to the cluster of hooks used to KO Ray Austin as "Roy Esque"....but I'll take it a little further- Roys own comments.

When Roy said, in the Brewster fight that "Wlad can't fight from the downside", Roy then went on, very shortly afterwards to lose two fights in quick succession, both by KO, one of them to former Sven Ottke victim, Glen Johnson.

Were there mitigating factors? Yes.

Roy also added during the Danny Williams vs Vitali fight that Vitali had impressed him and shown him some neat tricks for such a big man. He said that himself.

Now, does this put the Klitschkos on a par with Roy Jones Junior? No. But they certainly belong in the same sentence as him. The only heavyweights of the last 10 years who have done things in as unorthodox an orthodox fashion as Roy Jones, happen to be the brothers. They have made a lot of title defences, fought all over the world, and are on top of their game and have been there for some time. It's not like it's a sin to mention their name in the same sentence as Roy Jones. We're not talking about Primo Carnera and Ali here. Far from it.

In fact, when Roy made his vaunted move to heavyweight, Max Kellerman seemed shy to use Klitschkos and Jones name in the same sentence, perhaps for somewhat different reasons this time.

Kellerman wanted what he said to be true, as opposed to believing what he said to be true.

I can't agree- and I don't want you to think I am being deliberately obtuse. First off Kellerman said that a full 3 minutes of fighting after the KD.

At the time Kellerman said what he said, Calzaghe was winning the second round, had ripped off some very good combos and was more than back in the fight. Did Tito even win a round vs Roy? Lederman had scored the second for Jones but nobody else did, even Lampley repeatedly stated that "if you scored the 2nd for Calzaghe"...hinting, perhaps politely, that Max's and Harolds logic was screwy.

He said it with 20 seconds left in the 2nd round. When Roy landed the right on Tito, Tito did the shuffle or fell over. Joe laughed. There was nothing Tito esque about it. And, critically, at the point Kellerman said what he said- he already knew that the KD in the first round had been caused by a forearm to the face, having seen the replay in glorious HBO HD during the interval.

Perhaps not. But they did know the KD had not been caused by a punch, they did know that Roy had been comprehensively outboxed in the 2nd and they did know that Roy had landed fewer punches in the first. In fact, his big punch in the first wasn't a punch. Did they know Joe was en route to dominating? No. Did they know this was not Tito Trinidad II? Yes. No need for Max to say otherwise.....he just wanted to say it. He wanted it to be true more than he believed it to be true.

The context was 3 minutes of fighting after the incident, with Joe now moving forward, backing Roy up and landing frequently. As I say, very little Tito Esque about that.

Interestingly enough, one thing Max did find the time to mention after Jones had pocketed several rounds, was that the knockdown hadn't come from a punch, but a forearm. How very retrospective of him. Surely the time to make that observation would have been in the 2nd round when Roy was failing to make Joe Calzaghe look like a washed up Felix Trinidad.

I think Roy had single faster shots, as evidenced by his right in the fight. My beef with Kellerman was not who was faster, but what Kellerman was trying to allege, what Kellerman was trying to hint at.....Roy is ancient, Roy is slow, And he's still faster, so....if this fight had taken place back when...hint hint hint

Notice that Kellerman started this shit after his "Tito Trinidad" thing had evaporated.

If Kellerman wanted to go down this route he should have stated that Joe Calzaghe too was faster in his youth. They had both slipped, Roy more than Joe, and yes Roy was still faster, and yes Roy would have beaten him way back when, but typical Kellerman, he couldn't just deal with what was happening right under his nose, he had to, a la interviewing with Devon Alexander, make some snide cryptic shit out of it.

I don't know if the music analogy is entire congruous with boxing. Boxing is riddled with, and infamous for, old-timers who hang around criticizing younger fighters. Kid Gavilan did it all the time. Gavilan never had a kind word to say about Felix Savon and Teofilo Stevenson. He used to mock the shit out of them all the time and say they were lazy. You know why? Because Castro ripped Gavilan off, so Gavilan went around saying todays fighters are full of shit, especially Cuban ones. :laugh11: Boxing is full of cranky old fucks who have a beef with being old. If Larry get's on your case like Kellerman gets on mine, then feel free to complain.

Nah. Kellerman is just an agenda loaded sumbitch with a nasty streak who needs to be called on it. His commentary in the Jones Calzaghe fight was an abomination.

 

Actually it has only taken a day.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/dec/12/amir-khan-david-haye

"But, after his extraordinary win over the Argentinian Marcos Maidana at the Mandalay Bay on Saturday night to hang on to his WBA light-welterweight title, Khan is the hottest property in boxing outside his friend Manny Pacquiao and the slumbering heavyweights, among them David Haye and the Klitschko brothers."

So Khan is the hottest property in boxing, outside of the heavyweights.

:scratcher:

 

Raquel, excuse me.:TLC: 60's sex symbols wouldn't be my specialist subject on mastermind.

 

You get yourself a stiff one and go onto google looking for pictures of "Rachel Welsh" to finish the job with and you'll be stroking that chub for a while yet....::

 

Calzaghe was hit with the wrist,... you Irish plonk bulb. Not the pillow-phat forearm, as that woulda been a mere uncle rudegers rub, wouldnt a knocked out a nephew, wouldn't have rendered Calzaghe an exposed white bitch for 4 or 5 seconds. Palm, wrist, then forearm,... there's an edible difference between wings and abdomen on a wee willy wasp,..so a distinction for that snippet, neither for mark :nono:.

 

Kellerman said "Wrist....Forearm"....who am I to disagree with The Schmatta Kid? :dunno:

 

Someone on ESB just said that they think Khan has the fastest hands in boxing history.