Pettis Vs Maynard/Edgar

I dont remember which thread it was, but some one told me both of these guys would both roll pettis and i couldnt help but laugh

After saturday, whoever said that, do you still feel the same way?

 

Raises hand.

 

ok so after saturday u still think these guys beat pettis? based on what exactly

 

I absolutely think each of these guys beat Pettis. And I base it on the fact that they are better fighters who have faced far superior competition. Not to mention each guy has an impressive amateur wrestling background prior to MMA.

Hopefully Pettis and Henderson get to face UFC competition while we wait for Edgar-Maynard III and we will get to gauge how good they really are. Personally I would love a Henderson-Florian match. Kenny wipes the floor with him in my opinion, but it would really give an indication of where Henderson deserves to be ranked.

Likewise, it would be cool to see Pettis fight the Korean dude that just beat Diaz. Again, I would pick Dong-hyun Kim to get the win, but it would be a good barometer.

 

But what does that mean exactly, the ufc 155 division is far behind the 155 in the wec, they have been fighting top guys in the WEC forever. Hell the wec was basically reformed to only feature those fighters

Maynard didnt do much that entire fight, he couldnt even properly use his wrestling skills during the fight when edgar was basically on his way out

Edgar got through the fight going backward and using footwork against a fighter whos wrestling was neutralized and has mediocre striking. Im really just not seeing what you guys are

But i do agree a bendo florian fight would be very exciting, id LOVE to see that

 

Well, I watched Pettis struggle against the very ordinary Bart Palaszewski just a year ago. I actually thought Pettis deserved the decision but it wasn't a robbery. So, yeah, Pettis loses to a very middle of the road fighter while Frankie Edgar has beaten the following:

Jim Miller
Tyson Griffin
Mark Bocek
Spencer Fisher
Hermes Franca
Sean Sherk
Matt Veach
BJ Penn twice

That is a virtual who's who in the UFC's 155 pound division. Meanwhile, before beating Henderson, the biggest win on Pettis's resume was Shane Roller.

To me it seems like apples to oranges, but that's why they fight the fights. Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.

By the way, it looks like the UFC has Ben Henderson making his debut at UFC 129 in Toronto versus Mark Bocek. It's not Kenny Florian, but it's a good test. If Henderson beat Bocek easily, my opinion will definitely change.

 

I guess thats the problem here. You think a lot higher of a lot of these guys then i do

As far as im concerned the following arnt really top level fighters. And his fight with bart was a bad match up for him, most fighters dont perform at a high level against anyone

Jim Miller
Tyson Griffin
Mark Bocek
Hermes Franca
Matt Veach

These are his most credible wins, which is certainly no small task in beating these guys at all
BJ Penn twice
Sean Sherk
Spencer Fisher

And thats a good fight for bendo for sure. Very excited to see that. I just think overall the WEC fighters have been fighting against a higher most consistent level of competition for a longer time. So while the names may or may not be there, they also really havent had the exposure to become the stars the UFC has created

 

Pettis isn't going to blow up to 170.

 

i dont even see the point of that?

i missed the part about him fighting at 170, theres no reason for him to do that, unless pettis cleans out the division and wants a super fight with GSP

for the most part all of these gusy belong at 155 and shouldnt consider moving up

 

Did I read your post right, Mike, that you believe the UFC 155 division is far behind the WEC 155 division?:dunno:


I don't think Pettis would beat Clay Guida. Ben Henderson isn't a top 10 LW in the UFC

 

maybe "far" is the wrong word

I think at the moment the WEC guys can easily compete with anyone in the ufcs 155 divison

how after this saturday people still think edgar and maynard are these top level animals is beyond me

 

Far is the right word. "not" is the wrong word

 

Pettis'll fuck those niggas up, num sen.

He'll wall dive the shit out of both dem crackas.

 

not sure if youre being serious, but if so at least some one is with me

 

i've only seen pettis's recent win vs. henderson, but based on that fight alone, i can't see how he'd win against either maynard or edgar.

if anything, i think henderson has a good chance of winning the rematch.

 

How exactly does bendo stand a chance of winning the rematch when he lost every round?

Pettis is better on the ground then edgar, and comparable in striking. And hes better in both areas then maynard...Hell maynard couldnt even take edgar down this time around. matter of fact he was the one who was getting taken down

 

Dude, are you serious?

 

Yes, i am.

 

Man, Edgar was 4 year college wrestler at the same school that produced Kurt Angle and is a purple belt in BJJ under Almeida. This dude had BJ Penn, one of the best BJJ guys in the known universe, on his back and shook him off.

And Maynard? He was a Division 1 wrestler at Michigan State and is probably the most accomplished wrestler in MMA at 155 pounds outside Joe Warren. Maynard's top control is as good as it gets in MMA.

You are giving far too much credit to the way Pettis and Henderson looked versus each other. But you are also detracting far too much from Edgar and Maynard because of how they negated each others top level wrestling.

Pettis isn't a slouch, but saying he's better on the ground than Edgar and Maynard just has no foundation in fact.

 

Before either of those 2 guys fought each other i thought very highly of them. It has nothing to do with their recent fight.

You should know by now im a BIG mma fan, im not band wagon riding over here

I understand the credentials youre talking about but this stuff has to transfer itself over to mma.

And im going to take things a step further and say that BJs grand game is overrated, he has good taken down defense as well as a very strong BJJ game but outside out that hes never done anything great to warrant all of the credit he is given

 

Well, I'm not even going to begin to list the accomplishments. We will just have to disagree.

It is a bit odd that you are ready to crown Pettis the best LW in the world having done very little in the world of MMA thus far, yet a 2 division champ with wins over guys like Hughes, Gracie, Pulver, Serra, Uno, Gomi, Sherk, Stevenson, Florian, Sanchez, etc. hasn't done anyting to warrant the credit he gets.

 

By the way, that 'stuff' has translated into a combined MMA record of 23-1-1 for Edgar and Maynard with the only loss and draw at the hands of each other. Not too shabby.

 

And i dont disagree with that at all, nor will I ever

But this isnt to say at all that the WEC guys are top flight fighters because they lack the credentials on paper that these other guys have

I realize the fights will be fought and we will see eventually, but i just cant side with the fact the WEC 55ers are the little sisters of the UFCs 55ers

 

You listed a group of old second rate fighters who cant compete in todays game.

Outside of florian, none of these guys are relevant at all to todays MMA game. I understand they were high level guys before. But none of them can compete now with the skills they have.

And yes i realize that maynards win over florian adds to your arugment, but maynard edgar pettis and bendo would probably beat all of the guys you listed.

 

I'm with Trplsec here. Neither Pettis or Henderson have faced the level of competition to justify the thought that they'll be able to hang with Maynard/Edgar. We'll see in the future if they can, but right now they don't have the credentials to make me believe so. Put them in with a Florian or Guida first, then we'll talk.

 

That's hilarious. Each of those guys was around the top of their respective division when Penn faced them. Their standing now is irrelevent as we are talking about what Penn has done to deserve the credit he gets. He has consistently fought and beat top guys.

Again, your hypocrisy is hilarious. You talk about Penn's resume being old, second rate fighters yet each and every guy on the list is better than the absolute best guy on Pettis's resume.

Honestly, does anyone think Shane Roller beats any of these guys now OR in their prime:

Hughes, Gracie, Pulver, Serra, Uno, Gomi, Sherk, Stevenson, Florian, Sanchez

Hell, I'm not sure Roller could beat the current ultra shot versions of Pulver and Uno.

And make no mistake about it, Kenny Florian and Diego Sanchez would look like Muhammed Ali on the resume of Pettis or Henderson.

Get real.

 

You sound exactly like those guys who used to say pride fighters would get crushed by UFC fighters

Youre gonna knock roller and claim he wouldnt beat todays jens pulver?

Just because some one has a big name at a previous time period has nothing to do with todays fighters, at all.

 

Here ill tell you what.

My entire point here is the WEC guys can compete with and beat some of the UFC guys
Youre telling me all the WEC guys would get rolled by these great class of 55ers they have

So tell me, where do you think the WEC guys would sit if there was a ranking system in place or something of that nature.

 

Huge difference with the UFC and WEC. They have both been owned by the same parent company since 2006. And historically, in shared weight classes, guys that weren't UFC-caliber fought in the WEC until proving themselves.

You've got me completely wrong. I am a big fan of former WEC fighters at 170 and 185 like Carlos Condit, Leben, Stann and Diaz. I just don't think Anthony Pettis, with a 5-1 record in the WEC against medium level talent, should be ranked along side Maynard, Edgar and Penn.

Eventually I think Pettis and Henderson can be good UFC fighters and maybe even great, but they aren't there now.

And to trying to stack the resume of Pettis up against BJ Penn is just ridiculous on any level and from any angle. I'm sorry.

 

Here is how I would rank guys at 155 overall. Remove the non UFC guys and it gives you an idea:

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 118pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=157 x:str><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 118pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 5741" width=157><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; WIDTH: 118pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17 width=157><!--<li class="country"> -->Gray Maynard</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country">Country -->Frankie Edgar</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17>BJ Penn</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> -->Gilbert Melendez</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> --> George Sotiropoulos</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> --> Eddie Alvarez</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> --> Kenny Florian</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> --> Jim Miller</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> --> Evan Dunham</TD></TR><!--<li class="country"> --><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> --> Clay Guida</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> --> Shinya Aoki</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; 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BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0" class=xl24 height=17><!--<li class="country"> --> Sean Sherk</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>