Acceptable Quitting?

Quitting is an almost unforgivable thing in boxing, and rightly so. It is in the warrior ethic of boxing that a true fighter never believes its over... even when it is, the pride to not be emasculated carries the toughest fighters... but there are times when quitting is forgivable... these are a few examples in my mind

*the first one has nothing to do with the passing of this legend, BTW *

Alexis Arguello in the second Pryor fight-- when you have already proven everything there is to prove as Arguello had done for over 80 fights by this point and you are facing a man who has already beaten you once in a colossal struggle... essentially deciding you have had enough and coming to the realization that nothing you can do will effect the outcome, you've earned the right to say "I think that's enough for me" ... no problem with this one

Ali against Larry Holmes -- Ali was completely shot and just bravely standing there taking a beating... Angelo Dundee threw in the towl for him, it was the right thing to do

Whitaker against Borjorquez -- a broken clavicle on an old pudgy guy who was once a king is a pretty decent excuse to say "that's it"

DLH against Pacquiao -- Im no fan of Oscar's, but it was pointless for him to just stand there and get beat up more... he'd proven his courage plenty of times... cant give him much flak for this

Morales against Pac ... Always hated Morales, but his gutsiness was proven ad infinitum... he gave it his best and it just wasnt enough... nothing wrong with this one

Daniel Zaragoza against Morales... Zaragoza fought courageously against one of the best young fighters in the game, but it was too much for him... he should be commended for hanging in there as long as he did

other examples? anybody disagree with the above?

 

camacho jr vs leija springs to mind!

 

I think Willie Pep had a closed right eye and an injured shoulder against Sandy Saddler when he quit.

 

Agree with all the above examples.

Personally I find the most unacceptable type of quitting the tacit quitting involved when guys just stop trying to win or push the action in return for taking less shots. You see it most often with fat heavyweights, but Roy Jones was also guilty of it in the last Tarver and Calzaghe fights. Far better in my book to give everything for one more round then quit on their stool at the end of it. I certainly don't demand bloody minded heroism from prize fighters but I do expect a genuine attempt to win the fight.

 

Frazier-Ali

 

I don't think any sensible boxing fan will hold quitting against a fighter when it's obvious they've given their all. And conversely I don't think we should absolve guys who go out there and go through the motions without ever making a genuine attempt to win the fight just because they keep getting off their stool for the next round.

 

Couldn't agree more.
Not attempting to win, because you're afraid of getting stopped is quitting in my book.

 

Yup. He quit half way through the first round. In reality though he quit 3 months before that when he decided not to bother training for the fight like a professional athlete. You can't expect a fighter to be committed in the ring when he's invested nothing in the fight going in. Commitment and consistency, psychology 101. May every fat heavyweight burn in flames, I hate them more than paedophiles.:flip:

 

Freitas against Corrales. Corrales just kept coming and accelerating the pace of the fight. Freitas just couldn't keep going.


Tszy vs. Hatton. It was a close fight but not by Manchester standards. Tszyu knew he would've needed the knock-out to win and probably felt very weak, as if he were going to be knocked out if he went out for the final round.

I agree with everyone here who says the worst kind of quitting is the tacit quitting implied when a fighter goes into survival mode and no longer has the goal of winning the fight. RJJ has been guilty of this (vs. Calzaghe and Tarver III).

 

Vasquez against Raf Marquez. If he says i can't breathe thats good enough for me. Vasquez is still one of the toughest fighters in my lifetime.

 

I have to disagree with both your choices there, I thought both of those quit jobs were difficult to justify.:dunno:

 

Yeah you need to factor in a guys previous with something like that. Like even the Duran thing, which was otherwise unjustifiable, you can't really hold it against a guy that showed himself over twenty odd years to be a fighter from the tips of his toes to his hair follicles. If he feels like taking the night off I'm pretty much willing to give him it.::

 

I know. I was being sarcastic. I agree with you that those two instances were unforgivable quit jobs for a professional fighter competing at the highest level.

 

ah ha::

 

Gatti-vs-Mayweather:

Gatti was way in over his head and was getting pot shotted to death. His corner rightfully stopped the fight. Gatti was completely overmatched here, and if you don't believe me you can ask Floyd. He was telling everyone who would listen what a bum Gatti was.

On the other hand maybe Floyd was just talking smack because you don't fall to your knees in tears after stopping a bum do you?

 

Exactly. Fucking douche....you'd think he's just beaten Roberto Duran or something.

 

That's the first one that popped into my head. He was busted to shit in that fight. His heart and stamina is what was keeping him from being flayed out on the canvas to begin with.

Of course Raffy is tough as nails also.

 

The most obvious case now that I think of it was Randie Carver vs Kabary Salem back in 1999.


Carver ended up being killed in that fight............yet the announcers were basically calling him a pussy when he took a knee and started shaking his head at the end of the fight.

Just a bad, bad moment for everybody involved in that fight.

 

I totally fucked this up! I need to stop drinking so much dammit!

 

:doh:

 

::

 

I had way too much to drink today OMG!

 

Genaro Chicanito Hernandez TWICE (against Oscar & Fraud).

 

Miguel Cotto against Antonio Margarito.

At first I figured the cornered stopped it, but I read that Cotto later said he made the decision to quit and his cornered apparently just picked up on it. His body language showed that he'd had enough. I don't blame him. He had nothing left, he had the fight beaten out of him.

 

Quitting is subjective whether it is legit or not. I know this though, I rather see a guy quit then die or be "Mccellaned". I also have a very Un-American opinion on quitting. Boxing is a pain game but no one should have to die for me because I paid 60 bucks to see it.

What Robert Guerrero did was unforgivable and what Hassim Rahmen did against James Toney in the rematch. Ortiz and Jefferey Resto basically just showed they shouldn't be fighters. It is a tough game.

 

McClellan vs Benn

 

Agreed Free,... it's a pretty sick attitude,..and predictably when we have a case like Leavander Johnson,.. we all bawl and cry and question what went wrong?... "waaaah, waaaah what can we do to avoid tragedies like this from ever happening again?"... quitting to potentially save yourself from permanent damage or death is "unnacceptable, disgraceful, disgusting, dishonourable" .. but Fraud Mayweather and Bernard Hopkins oppurtunism and thorough contempt for the sport inside and outside of the ring is,..the 'talk of the town', it's publicity and conjecture, whas they gunna make us pay for nex? ... They're heroes,... they'll never quit, because they fight with the kind've style that would never see them in an entertaining war where the damage can be accumulated to the extent where you contemplate the horrifying possibility of 'quitting' ,..I guess that's what we all crave, nothing 'dishonourable' about that.

 

Agreed. My opinion about quitting is softer than with most people. If a fighter feels himself he can not win and he quits, it is OK with me. The only one who suffers from that is the guy himself as he gets a loss on his record, the other guy gets a KO win so he has nothing to complain, the audience usually can shut up.

The only type of quitting I hate is when a fighter tries to bail out with NC or DQ win instead of accepting the loss(Rahman-Toney II) and obvious dives

 

Agreed being it completely subjective.

You have to look at in on a case by case basis. It's not a black and white issue like some people like to believe. Boxing is infinitely tougher than other sports but it's not a Roman gladiator contest. It's still a professional sport and the fighters involved are doing it to make a living.

Very few quit jobs are looked upon kindly in this sport. Fighters aren't exactly ignorant of this fact.

They take a risk career wise by throwing in the towel just as they take a rish in fighting on.

If some blood thirsty barbarians feel they were "cheated" out of money? Fuck em. They can masturbate to videos of Griffith-Paret or watch bullfighting if you want guranteed pain and death.