young vargas couldnt (really) defeat winky wright back then but he was at least competitive, its doubtful alvarez could beat todays version of wright.
Alvarez really isn't very impressive at all if you ask me. He looks like a FNF fighter. He's not as skilled as Gatti, for example.
I get the feeling Alvarez might be one of those guys who's better than he looks. Sure his opposition has been B class at best, but the guys lost about 4 rounds in his last 10 fights and you gotta be doing something right to be that dominant in fight after fight.
Nah, he's just been matched against very old or mediocre fighters, and won clearly through sheer youth/workrate etc.
You'll see I'm right Hut when he steps up in class. He'll get absolutely battered even agaisnt Kirkland/Angulo level fighters.
You should do. Matthew Hatton is very mediocre, he was right there to be hit, and yet Alvarez could basically do nothing, didn't come close to stopping him or even giving him a beating. Bearing in mind he is an aggressive fighter. He looked to have the offensive capabilities of Paul Spadafora.
I'll be frank - I've never been impressed with Alvarez- he's slow and one handed. Ostensibly. But until a fighter starts losing rounds I don't rule him out, some guys look awful but are doing things in there that sneak under the radar in terms of distancing, timing etc. Some guys come out with performances that surprise you when they're finally tested. Im not saying Canelo is one of these guys, just pointing out that he's been extraordinarily dominant thus far, despite being visually unimpressive.
Fair enough, I can understand that. Obviously it IS results that count, regardless of how someone looks. Frock is a prime example of that. I was shocked at how crap he seemed when I first saw him, and I started calling him the fighting farmer etc. But regardless of how sloppy and average he looks, the guy can fight, and has got some very impressive results at world level. Alvarez? I just can't see it. It's not often I call people bums etc, but at world level I think he's pretty crap. I think he's been matched well with guys who could be dominated puely by youth/energy, basically guys that are old or crap or both. I would very confidently pick the likes of Kirkland and Angulo over him, I think Mike Jones would beat him, and I think a fight between him and Soto Karass would be a pick em. In fact I'd be tempted to pick Soto Karass. Like I said in my other thread, in all honesty, if they met at 147, I think Rios would give him a proper beating.
I hear you. My first instinct is to lean that way too, but Im hanging back from comitting an opinion on him until I really watch the tapes. I mean, people are up on Berto, but IMO that guy sucks at least as much as Alvarez. No concept of distance, no strategic nous or patience, shitty punch picking,wholly reliant on speed defensively - thats a guy who overwhelms opponents with youth and energy/speed, IMO. And you see him drop multiple rounds to guys like Collazo, Urango & Forbes, who frankly aren't a whole lot better than Canelo's fodder. Alvarez doesn't have Berto's physical gifts but I think he might have a little more about him than somebody like Berto. I reserve judgement....
I agree. Without his speed, he would be an Alvarez level fighter at best. The thing is though, he IS a very fast welterweight. In most weight divisions, excellent handspeed can go a long way. You even said once "these days I generally pick the guy with the faster hands". You need look no further than Trashkhan for evidence of that. For that reason alone, I would pick Berto over Alvarez, and think he'll probably do better against most opposition.
That's the way I view up and comers too. When they start having closish fights with guys below world level then you should treat them with suspicion. Until then they get a pass. Saying that, Hucknelo is wank
C class....M. Hatton, N'dou, JM Cotto.....N'dou and Cotto could have been B level fighters a few years ago at 140 and 135, but today 147/154 version are C level....at best...
I have to agree with that. He hasn't even beaten a B level fighter. Even Berto and Kirkland have fought better comp.
Except he lost multiple rounds against almost every bum he fought once he got to even D level fighters.:Thumbs:
