Lennox Lewis vs. Chris Arreola

i'm not a big fan of these big German bums at all

but Vitalie gave Lemmon a good fight.. but Lemmon tore him up

even though i hate lemmon and think he is one of the worst ever to be called "champ" the german gay towers are worse

 

I always believed Vitali was badly hurt when that fight ended. Lemmon caught him with a couple hellacious uppercuts towards the end of the fight. I've always thought a round or two more Vitali would have gotten KO'd. The best thing to happen was/is the cut. Gave him the "what if" factor.

 

Vitali wasnt even buckled. :dunno: His face looked like hamburger meat, yeah, but lets not pretend that he was on queer street or anything.

 

Predicting what would have happened next is pretty futile. None of us can make a guess without bringing our bias to it. Although I think it's pretty safe to say it wouldn't have seen the 10th round, even without the cut.

 

I have no bias either way....if anything I'd be more partial to Vitali. I'm neutral on the the Klitschko's. I've always been a huge hater of Lemmon ask anyone that's been around for awhile...thus the name LEMMON.

 

I'm pretty much neutral too, I'm an admirer of both, fan of neither.... if I was making one of those in-fight bet type things at the time I think I'd probably have put it on Lewis, depending what the odds were, based mainly on the fact he was far more experienced and had more self belief at that point. I think the deeper water that fight got into the more doubt was starting to enter into Vitali's mind.

But both men were totally exhausted, somebody was gonna fall in that one in the next few rounds.

 

That's exactly how I feel.

Though I would say I'm a borderline fan of Vitali. I don't exactly get excited about watching him, but I really appreciate what a wolf in sheep's clothing he is, he looks so clumsy and awkward, but he very effective, and can box.

I also like the fact that he can take a punch.

I didn't think Vitali was particularly hurt by Lewis by the way. If anything I would have given the edge to Vitali if it continued, Lewis looked even more gassed. It is of course possible that Lummox's experience could have made the difference.

Fair win though, seeing as a punch caused the damage.

 

i agree completely

and i hate lemmon but he did have the bigger of the gay towers hurt and probably would have stopped him

 

So every single guy that has ever challenged for the heavyweight title was "green" ... I got it now...

Tyson annihlated Berbick in a few minutes... even more impressive because he was so GREEN

what nonsense...

"Green" is your first fight against anyone notable, to me

Alexis Arguello/Ernesto Marcel... Alexis could be described as "green" there, perhaps

to call a guy with 30 plus fights who had already faced at least half a dozen guys with "names" at least GREEN is ridiculous to me

 

........

 

debate the point, Hut

A guy thats never faced a contender, thats a GREEN fighter

a fucking heavyweight ranked in the top 5 in the world who has already beaten the shit out of a bunch of name guys and was easily on his way to murdering Chris Byrd pre-freak-injury is NOT FUCKING GREEN

Specifying it as "a guy who has never fought in a championship fight" is PREPOSTEROUS

was Marvin Hagler "green" against Alan Minter? Guy had already raped half the division, never had a championship fight... so he must be GREEN

what if you never win a title? do you remain "green" for your whole career?

how about if you don't get a shot at all? Charley Burley must've been incredibly green

revisionist, sympathetic horseshit

 

it really is impressive if you think about how green mike was when he fought berbick

 

, I only posted that because I knew it'd get a rise out of you. Any version of Lewis destroys Arreola inside 3 rounds.

 

Pretty much sums it up. :bears:

One note: Hagler's first title fight was against Antuofermo, not Minter. But that doesn't change the spirit of your post. Hagler wasn't remotely green going into his first title shot.

 

I don't think I ever made that specification. Again, Im getting pinned for shit other people say in defence of a fighter I have no affection for.,,,,

It was his first big fight in America with the pressure that entails, and his first fight against anyone with chance of beating him. He had never been in a tough fight (shoulder injury aside) with anybody who'd remotely tested or pushed him. At all. And he was going in against Lennox Lewis at Madison Square Gardens or Casers Palace or wherever it was. That brings pressures, stresses & self doubts that don't exist when you've danced the dance 3, 4, 15 times.

I mean, there are shades of green, he wasn't beaming neon like Arguello against Marcel, but but in the scheme of things he was still some shade of khaki.

I'm surprised you would really argue this point, tbh....

 

I'm surprised you would, frankly

 

He had an 'experience deficit', lets put it that way. Green is an American term, im in over my head arguing its exact semantic, but the basic reality of things isn't even debatable. He'd never had a proper 2 way fight that was any preparation for taking on Lennox Lewis.

 

Most weren't prepared to take on Lennox, though.

 

Yeah, but they had experience of a tough fight or two.



ARRRGGGHH. I retire from defending Klitschko. How did I get here? Where am I? There are rabbits in my garden. What time is it where you are?

 

It's 12:15PM in the real world. :kidcool:

Vitali didn't have tough fights because he was protected on the way up.

 

Taking on Lewis, physically, was one thing- and Vitali could have done with more than 2 weeks prep for that one. Taking on the experience of Lewis for all the marbles was a psychological test which could only be prepared for, perversely, by taking the actual test.

As stated, I am prepared to accept almost any version of events on what would have happened had the fight been let go on, if the there had been a rematch, etc...PROVIDED Klitschko gets the same sort of what/if/but treatment that Lewis did.

As for Arreola, he gets puttied by either man, just a little sooner with Lewis.

 

Yup he's been protected through his whole career. What a ducker. Thanks for bringing me back to the real world.

*sigh*

 

Vitali was pretty obviously carefully matched over the first seven or so years of his career. That's common knowledge. I didn't say his whole career.

 

Who else do you think he could have fought up until that point? The risk/reward equation was way out of kilter for Rahman, Tyson, Holyfield, Kirk Johnson & Tua, they weren't gonna dance. Byrd was being frozen out so he bit the bullet and I can't think of anyone else worth remembering. Who was he being protected from?

 

Wait... are you denying Vitali's less than steller comp leading up to the Lewis fight?

Vitali wasn't really looked at as a risk before he fought Lewis. Not after quitting against Chris Byrd, and it was before people clued in and figured out that his ugly still didn't necessarily mean that he sucked.

 

No I'm ASKING you who he was protected from.

Re: the risk thing, I remember it totally differently. For all the macho flak he was catching about the shoulder issue it was understood he was a risky opponent, even for Lewis (he was seen as a significant step up in risk terms from Kirk Johnson who was top 7 or 8 at the time). In fact 3 of my mates who didn't even like boxing came round for that one because they were already familiar with Vitali. Rahman, Tua, Oldyfield, etc who were still marketable had no reason to touch him with a stick until they either had to or the rewards became commensurate with the risk.

So again, it's a question Im asking... I mean, it's cool to use the odd word in error and retract it, Im not trying to score a win here or any shit, Im just curious what you actually think was going on then.