What happens if Shane lands the same right hands...

I guess I don't see Manny having much success against Shane at his best...a pick 'em fight going into the lightweight fight but Shane winning in the end. Mosley was just as fast, really faster (then) than Manny. Threw punches in combinations just like Manny and more importantly had better footwork than Manny.

What I mean by that is he could come in, go out, slide off and punch at angles plus he's taller and has a longer reach than Manny. That version of Shane doesn't exist today. He's 39 closing in on 40. He's going to stand in front of Manny, try to walk him down, roll his gloves, move his head two seconds after manny's jab touches his nose (because his reflexes are gone) and take a beating.

There's a reason Manny had issues with Marquez. While Marquez wasn't faster, he knew how to time Manny and upset his rhythmn...the rest of the guys were either too slow, stood in front of him, walked right to him or refused to engage him (like MAB).

Like I said...I encourage guys to watch Mosley in the Mayweather or Mora fights then watch him at lightweight. Even in the first fight with Oscar he wasn't as aggressive as he'd been at lightweight. Shane's handspeed was ridiculous then and he let his hands go. He can't get his punches off these days...manny won't fear any incoming.

Lastly, I can't get over how marked up manny's face was after the clottey fight. Clottey rarely touched him. That version of Mosley, the handspeed, power, reach, volume of punches...I don't see how Manny deals with that. With the exception of the Cotto fight (which was a close fight and Shane figured him out too late) Shane struggled with guys who were taller and typically bigger than he (Forrest and Wright) and on occasion knocked those guys out (Mayorga and Vargas twice).

I just think Mosley beats Pac at lightweight or welterweight...in his prime. It doesn't detract from Manny's legacy or make him a lesser fighter in my eyes...which is why I used the Duran-Hearns example.

 

I agree that Pacquiao is a better fighter, pound for pound. It isn't really close. But I'm still not totally sure that he's a better welterweight. Shane's win over Oscar is a much better win that anything Pacquaio has above 130.

 

That second shot wasn't even a hard right and it buckled Floyd.

 

but...but...but Pacquiao is a Flyweight!!!!!!!!!!!!

will be the usual answer...

 

No, but I still remember that going into his first fight with MAB, many thought he was a chinny junior featherweight. His run is legendary.

 

Nobody is going to say Mosley is near what he once was, especially at 135. That said his competition there wasn't exactly a murderer's row.

The reasons you stated about Marquez giving Manny so many problems don't apply with Mosley. He's never exhibited the same boxing skill and timing.

"Power Boxing" is when he's looked at his best.I don't concede Mosley is faster. If he his, the difference is not a big one and he certainly is not a better combination puncher. Things like punching from angles and moving in and out Pacquiao is also much superior at. Manny is better at volume as well.

Pacquiao was a star at 126-130 taking on and beating the best when he was still fairly limited in repertoire. He's only improved since. What has Shane improved on since moving up from lightweight, bigger muscles?

You're taking the absolute best versions we've seen of Shane (against lesser opposition) and somehow trying to compare them against instances of picking fly shit out of pepper with Pacquiao.

 

He's going down like Terry Norris did against a Simon Brown jab

 

This post is bang on the money.

 

Yep.

Pacquiao is a different level to Mosley, stylistically it's tough of course, but I still believe Manny finds a way.

 

The less "limited" Pacquiao can also get away with mistakes at higher weights against weight-diminished fighters that can't make him pay like a prime Mosley would...and his conditioning and stamina are much more superior to heavier opponents (asked to cut weight) than they would be against a prime Mosley...that's part of the reason why some of the punchstats are so ridiculous...that, and Pacquiao fills up compubox with jabs, hardly the best punch in his arsenal.

Despite improvements, Pacquiao can still be hit. Even when he puts both gloves up - which he sometimes does waiting for an opponent to spend his wad before answering - he can still be hit through and around his guard.

When he's jumping in and out, when he's reaching, when he's punching, his hands can drift from his chin.

Mosley used to throw a much better left hook. He still can throw it with power, but it's not like it used to be, one that he would throw more freely to the body and head, and often with very little set-up.

I think that's a punch he could hurt Pacquiao with.

 

I wanna see Shane hit him with devastatin body shots! PAC will fold like a manilla cross dresser and Shane's Pomona black snake will wither out and enter with fury

 

This version of Mosley will be the best big fighter Manny has been in there with.

Shane offers the best combination of speed, power and durability that Manny has faced since FW in my opinion.

Reflexes? That's the issue with today's Shane unfortunately.

 

Actually Cotto is the best big fighter Manny has been in with. Cotto beat a better version of Mosley than the one Manny is about to face.

 

Apparently, the 2nd best Welter in America is an old, tired, ex-Ped divorcee who is taking these fights for money.

 

Mosley could be the toughest 147-pounder Pacquiao's faced.

Cotto beat Mosley, four years ago...and while he won the decision, a case could be made he took more punishment. He's the one that decided he need to change things mid-fight...and then continued that more reluctant style on through subsequent fights.

Not to mention that Cotto beat Mosley before the Margarito beating, and before he barely decisioned Clottey.

And while Cotto's not shot, and has looked better his last two outings, they've come at 154, nine pounds heavier than he came in against Pacquiao.

 

Agreed.

 

are you telling me that the toughest 147lbr that the WW king and pfp King Manny Pac has faced could be 39 y.o.a former Ped-master-Ped, Shane Mosley??

Hell of a division that must be.

 

Shane brings the slick, black inner-city, #2 WW in the USA style. When he lays down on that non-American, shit gone get real.

 

Cotto is still better than Mosley, and less shot.

He's also more fragile than Shane, without question.

Shane has faster hands than Cotto, a better chin, and a harder punch. Which seems significant, but somehow this version of Shane is still a less effective fighter.

Cotto actually fights more intelligently, puts combos together better, uses his jab better, has better timing, and is generally more skilled.

As expected, Cotto was actually doing OK against Manny early on. Better than I expect Shane to actually.

I expect Shane to have literally one or two moments early on the fight, landing a couple of meaty right hands, then Manny taking over and just dominating the fight. Not unlike the Floyd fight actually.

Only Manny is going to end up giving him a proper beating.

 

I'll take your word for it.

 

Shane is the #2 American Welterweight. Manny Pac is in deep here baby. I can't see the #2 American Welterweight having any real difficulty with this guy. Unless being the #2 American Welterweight doesn't mean all that much.

 

word.

Shane's in over his head in this one unless he lands crippling body shots!

He who brings Destruction has Spoken!!

 

Shane is the #2 American Welter. I like his chances in this one.

 

is that more or less meaningful than being a Cuban amateur star?

 

What, like Savon? Better ask Karl.

 

Manny would get stunned, put his gloves up and then together, do that stupid little side-to-side "I'm okay" dance, recover and then land left hands repeatedly to Shane's face.

 

What do you mean by durability? Shane has never been a guy to deal with adversity. Against any version of Pac he would have to deal with it.

 

Shane is the #2 American Welter. He will deal with it.

 

America's #2 Welterweight earning a smooth hunnid thousand at 154

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h6C6yP86Vg&feature=related

 

Well, I think the definition of durability is a pretty simple one. Not sure that being durable and dealing with adversity are synonymous.... Do you?

And by durable, I simply mean that Shane has 54 pro fights over an 18 year career versus almost every top fighter over several weight classes and has never been stopped.

Call me crazy, but that seems durable... I would guess that even the most ardent Mosley hater would concede durability.