Pacquiao vs Cintron next?

I'm not even sure about that. Cintron can punch but i think his power is overrated.

 

About twice his size. And a completely different style.

 

The Mosley that fought DLH & Diaz stomps a mudhole in Pac. Pac hasn't fought any welterweights who are even remotely that good.

 

Something to keep in mind is that at this point the welterweight division is pretty barren.

On the other hand, 154, which has a little more depth, includes Cintron in the top 5.

Still, my beef with Pacquiao will be ongoing if he continues to demand catch-weights from challengers above 140 (this is what he's done in every case except ODH).

It's clearly an attempt at gaining an unfair advantage. Think about it. He agrees to face ODH at 147, presumably because his team knows that 147 is sufficiently debilitating for ODH to make. In the case of Cotto, on the other hand, he'd fought regularly at 147, which meant that a catch weight would be necessary to compromise Cotto's strength and endurance.

Believe me. I don't think the outcomes of any of these fights were impacted by the odd and unreasonable catch-weight stipulations made by Pacquiao's team. But I do think it was an effort to hedge as best as possible against his losing, and I also think it was a way for Roach to insert himself further into the story of the fight, consistent with the fundamental goal of Roach's efforts, which is to garner as much credit as he can for the success of his fighters. And that's not to say that this sets Roach apart from most trainers, but it could explain senseless negotiations over 2 pounds here or 3 pounds there, the net impact of which is a number of astericks annotating many of Pacquiao's most important victories.

 

agREED on all accounts.

 

Man...the overrating of Mosley continues. Y'all don't yet realize how good Pac is? Shane is stronger and probably has Heavier hands (handspeed is equivalent), but after that Pacquiao has every conceivable advantage..PLUS a southpaw stance.

 

:giggle:

You wouldn't say otherwise when it comes to Shane. Still I do have mad respect for your boxing analysis in general.

Muzse, you know as well as I, that Shane's limitations play into Pac's strengths. How is Shane going to cope with that workrate? How is Shane going to offset Pac's movement and speed?

 

I think I would favor Shane at 135 over Pac simply because Pac wasn't quite yet at his peak at that stage in his career.

At 147, however, the Shane that fought DLH and Diaz and the current version of Pac would be a toss-up. No one can say for sure how it would've gone down. Would've been a hell of a fight though.

 

As I've said all along...

Go back and watch shane's hand and footspeed at 135. That was Shane 11-12 years ago.

I've always said Shane's speed was different to that of Roy Jones and even Floyd for that matter. Roy blinded and surprised you with his handspeed in counterpunches and with lead punches...Floyd the same thing though Floyd is/was far more defensive minded than Roy.

Shane's speed was based on how fast he lead off with shots...I can't see Manny handling that in light of even now...in his prime...against guys remarkably slower than he...he's not terribly hard to find.

We all know Shane had the chin to handle anything Manny would have thrown at him. I can't see Manny handling Shane's power at 135...not after catching clean hard shots.

That speed of shane makes Manny gunshy. Manny's reduced to lunging in...running into shane's shots.

 

I can see a lot of bitter people on May 7. As it is, this thread is already loaded with people bitching about what could've been.

Ten years ago, Derek Jeter constantly found ways to get on base and raise him game. Last night, he went 0-5. It is what it is.

 

Actually it's YOU who needs to wake up and smell the beans, Hextard.

How many fights is this in a row that you've picked against Pacman? When are you going to realise he's much, much better than you think he is?

 

Shane was FAST! No doubt about it. Problem was though that he was a spurt fighter and more predictable than his handspeed would suggest.

In the first 3 or 4 rounds, it would be competitive, possibly edge for Shane...but over the stretch of the fight, given Pac's INSANE stamina and workrate, speed maintenance, unpredictable movement and punches...Pac would be controlling the fight and Shane would be getting tattooed. Also Shane was always stationary after 3 or 4 rounds, even in his prime.

Pac's not hard to find, true, but neither was Shane. Shane could certainly take the single punches from Pac, but over a long fight the multitude of punches landed would take its toll. Shane wouldn't be stopped, but he would have been comprehensively beaten.

We mustn't forget that it was a Prime Shane who lost twice to Forrest. Shane wouldn't have lost if he was able to maintain a consistent workrate or if his speed was made as effective as Jones or Mayweather use their speed. Shane's handspeed is nullified a great deal by the way in which he fights after the first few rounds.

 

::

Idiot.

Pac schools that version of Shane, or any version, because he's a much better fighter.

I've always been a Mosley fan, but apart from Oscar 1, he's come up short against every elite fighter he's faced.

Pac beat the shit out of Cotto, who would be even money with prime Mosley.

Your underrating of Pacquiao is sickening.

I absolutely despise Floyd, but I have the sense and objectivity to see how good he is, and that he would also have clearly beaten prime Mosley.

The ironic thing is, Pacquiao has beaten a better welterweight than Floyd ever has.

And Sly, yeah I agree with you. Shane has always had VERY high velocity on his punches, the thing is, that's it, it's just raw velocity. He doesn't have the same reaction speed and eye for openings as the likes of Pacquiao and Floyd, he's just always been a more basic fighter. Excellent fighter, but kind of basic.

I always used to argue with you about Mosley, and you always have seemed like a blind Shane hater, but you're half right about him being a speedy slugger. Well, he's more adept offensively than a "slugger", but the fact is, the only time he's looked like a truly skilled offensive fighter with good boxing skill etc is against Oscar 1.

 

Come on...Shane losing to Forrest who was four or five inches taller with a much longer reach isn't relevant to the discussion. Unless Manny would have walked into the ring as a 6'1" lightweight.

Using losses as a gauge, Shane has always been a brutal body puncher which means Manny stands no chance after getting KO'd by bodypunches twice by much inferior guys than Forrest.

Completely faulty logic.

Lastly, Manny's "workrate" is disturbingly high against slower guys and guys looking to survive and not punch him back in the mouth. he was for more conservative against Marquez because he didn't know when the counter was coming back at him.

Shane at 135 would have surpassed his speed and strength. I think back to the Morales fights...Eric outboxed Manny clearly in the first fight. The second fight manny overtook him late and outpowered him. In no way shape or form would Manny have done that with Shane at 135. If anything, the roles are reversed.

I've said this for quite some time...I just have the sinking feeling when Manny faces adversity, he's going to bitch up. He's had one sided fights for a few years now. Will be curious what happens when he punches someone in the mouth and they punch him right back and not bend or fold.

 

What!?

 

Exactly.

Calling him a "slugger" wasn't meant to be an insult, it was just speaking to his temperament and tendency. I was never suggesting that he was a mickey ward ..but just saying that he was a "stylized" slugger.

That type of fighter doesn't beat Pacquiao unless he had Hearns' type power which he didn't.

I don't agree that Cotto would have been even money with a prime Shane though. Shane would have beaten him.

 

Manny faced adversity in the first Morales fight with the early cut. He didn't bitch up.

I think Cotto busted his eardrum. Margarito hurt him badly to the body.

Pacquiao has proven himself a warrior.

Also..you can't think that Shane could fight the way Marquez did. Marquez is the consumate counter puncher. Shane doesn't have the temperament or the reactions for counterpunching on that level and never has. It was Marquez' ability to counter which reduced Pac's workrate (something Floyd would also do and more, btw)...Shane's style wouldn't reduce Manny's workrate and that's the big problem.

Btw...Pacquiao was a under-developed kid at flyweight when he was stopped with body punches. Cotto and Margarito are BIG guys that BANG to the body and they didn't stop Manny. Shane may be a better body puncher than those two, but still it's not as though Pac has shown the same vulnerability since moving up in weight.

Morales did outbox Manny for the most part (I think the early cut and the gloves contributed more than people say but..)fair enough. However, morales has a more commanding jab than Mosley does (Shane just "flicks" his jab for the most part or uses it as a range finder) and Morales has a higher workrate than Shane does. Stylistically it's a different fight.

 

Manny also said he lost because he wore the wrong socks.

Don't forget that excuse.

:Steve-Dave/MMA:


Shane flicks his jab but he was also one of the best at turning that jab into a lefthook.

Not an easy thing to do.

 

:laugh11:


MWS=:Lok:

 

mexican shirts bias is disturbing at times

 

Couple that with Sly's 10 plus years of hating Shane, we're in the midst of a perfect storm.

They're Thelma and Louise in this thread.

 

::

Very funny I must admit.

 

btw...I have a (undeserved) reputation as a Shane hater, but I'm actually rooting for him to win in the Pacquiao fight. I don't expect him to, mind you, but I'd love it if he did.


Shane's a genuine nice guy with a very exciting style of fighting. What's there to hate. All I've ever been guilty of where Shane is concerned, was pointing out that he's not a master boxer, like a Floyd or a Jones...and that by virtue of this he wasn't "multi-dimensional" like so many people erroneously believed he was early in his career.

 

Pacquiao could piss in your face and you'd swear it was raining sweet yellow nectar. You might be a Mosley "fan," but when it comes to Pacquiao, you're a completely shameless ballsucker. It's not "underrating" Pacquiao to say that he would lose to the Mosley from DLH 1. Pacquiao's best win at 147 is over Cotto, Margarito's damaged goods.

Let's see, Pacquiao from 135 and up


135 - David Diaz. GARBAGE. Ducked Marquez here

"147" - Oscar De La Hoya (145 lbs!) - made him come down to 147, money came in on Pac after the weigh-in because Oscar looked like Death took a bowel movement in a crackhouse toilet. Oscar moved like a mummy in the ring.

140 - Ricky Hatton - Floyd's leftovers, practically a shot fighter at this point

147, wait, no, 145! - Miguel Cotto - Fought him after Margarito cracked his chin and took his mojo, made him come down to 145 lbs because he's a faggot prima donna who can't beat his opponents fair and square (yet another one of the many reasons why he's suspected of using PEDs)

147 - Joshua Clottey - . Nothing even needs to be said here, Clottey is a heavy bag with a guard.

147 - Margarito - fought him after he got completely wrecked by Shane Mosley

Now he's fighting Shane Mosley AFTER Shane got his shit pushed in by Floyd. Remember BEFORE Shane got his shit pushed in by Floyd, what Roach said about a Mosley fight? He said they would be willing to fight Shane .. at 142 lbs.

I guess it might be hard to see the pattern emerging here with Pac's buttcheeks up against your face as your tongue digs hungrily for last night's adobo, so try having a nearby sane adult explain it to you.

So based on this quality work, he's going to beat a prime Shane at 147? You want to talk about who has "one more quality win," Shane's win over DLH tops Pac's entire fucking padded resume post 135.

Cotto wouldn't be even money with a prime Mosley, but "he would be even money with this fighter, so he would likely be able to beat this fighter" is a dumbass game to play anyway.

 

Don't hold back now...forget the political correctness....let him KNOW how you feel!!! :giggle:

 

Seriously? DLH-Hatton-Cotto-Clottey-Margarito-Mosley

Padded with what exactly? Hall of famers / top contenders?

 

Take a closer look at when he fought them and the stipulations he put on them.

 

"When he fought them"

DLH had to come down to 147 and was well past his best already to begin with

Cotto's name didn't come out of his mouth until after he'd gotten destroyed by Margarito, and even then they made him come down to 145

Hatton was on a decline after getting whipped by Floyd and going on a 3 month long bender before looking like shit against 3rd tier opposition

Margarito's name didn't come out of his mouth until after he was revealed to be a paper tiger without his wraps

Prior to Shane getting whipped by Floyd, Roach/Pac wanted no part of him, they said they'd fight him at "142 lbs." Can you imagine Shane making 142?! Now Shane gets his ass kicked by Floyd, then looks bad against Mora, and suddenly Roach/Pac are willing to fight him at a reasonable weight. Whoa, what a coincidence.

Pac is a fucking prima donna, a cherry picking needle-phobic sideshow. Fuck Roach, fuck Pac, and fuck all his idiot fans.