Peak Tua (Ruiz/Ibeabuchi fights) vs Prime Frazier Last time I did this thread Frazier apologists suggested that Joe would...get this...OUTBOX Tua on route to a decision. Thats' right..."outbox" Tua. Suddenly Frazier was in the habit of outboxing guys, folks. Anyhow... Frazier may be the greater fighter but Tua knocks him the fuck out. It's simple boxing logic. Both men are compact pressure fighters, Tua is bigger, hits at least as hard and has the better chin. Tua proved against Ike that he had good stamina at his best (Punch stats beat even Frazier). People on this forum have said recently that Frazier beats Marciano (who had a better chin and two-fisted power) based primarily on Joe having a 20 pound advantage in weight. Well guess what..Tua has a 20 pound advantage in weight over Frazier too. So be consistent. Anyway..stylewise, Tua fucks Frazier up
Well, if a mediocre fighter Maskaev with a bad chin could take him 11 rounds I'd pick Frazier to take him 12 and win
Agreed. I'll take the absolute best version of Tua over a very faded Frazier but that's about it. Joe's better at everything other than being heavier. I don't think size plays a part in this one like i believe it would ala Frazier-Dempsey.
I've discussed this matchup before and gotten flamed for picking Tua. The fact of the matter is that Tua is bigger, hits at least as hard, has a better chin, and at his best had stamina for days. Before everyone is like 'ZOMG FRAZIER BEAT ALI!!1,' yes I recognize that Tua would have a snowball's chance in hell against Ali. But Frazier isn't Ali. Can you guys honestly see Tua losing to a smaller, chinny guy who's there to be hit? Frazier was badly hurt by fucking Oscar Bonavena. Tua would murder him.
Exactly my position. Frazier's the greater and more accomplished fighter but head to head he cannot beat Tua.
Seriously, if Frazier fought Tua the way he fought Chuvalo for spells, early (and he would) - ie in and out, turning him, coming in from angles and turning him again he'd win easy. It's Frazier's fight to lose & he would have that option to fall back on, if the inside game wasn't working for him. Or,like against Chuvalo he might find (as I suspect he would) that he can beat the ponderous Tua on the inside anyway and do it on his original terms. Tua ISN'T Foreman who was be able to corner, crowd and bully Frazier. Just because he punches hard, does not make him the same as Foreman. Just watch some of his fights, for chrissake. He doesn't basically punch unless the guy is standing still in front of him & he doesn't punch if the other guy is firing at him.
Have you seen Tua-Ibeabuchi? Dude in MMs we're supposed to consider the fighters at their best, not at their worst.
Yes. What I say applies 100%. Honestly mate, watch it again and look out for it, whenever Ike showed him the slightest movement Tua stopped throwing anything meaningful. Whenever Ike was throwing Tua stopped throwing anything meaningful. It doesn't take much. Just do something and Tua stops throwing meaningful shots. He'll throw those tentative range finding crab touches, but he stops throwing hard. Frazier would beat Tua EXACTLY how Ike did. That exact strategy.
Frazier doesn't have Ike's chin, IMO. And Ike threw punches from two hands and was bigger and stronger than Frazier. So i don't see how Frazier implores the "exact" strategy. It's a dangerous fight for Frazier, like it or not. Frazier's the better overall fighter and undoubtedly far greater but that would mean nothing if the two men ever met. Norton was far more accomplished and talented than Shavers for example.
Frazier's chin is fine. And his defence is much better. He moves more and would get hit less. I don't see Frazier having many problems here. I'd be a fun fight though.
seriously, Im beginning to wonder if Sly has ever seen any Frazier fight besides the Ali trilogy and the Foreman fight his descriptions of Frazier's style, skills and attributes are wildly off base
Frazier losing to David Tua is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever read here. It's an absolutely stupid position to take. MTF
Nothing ridiculous about it. If I was to say that Tua is a greater fighter or even a better fighter overall you may have a point. But I'm not saying that...I'm merely stating that Tua would win head to head. Is Frazier going to KO Tua? Is he going to be stronger than Tua? Is he guaranteed to outwork Tua? Is he going to get on his toes and put on a boxing clinic and stay out of danger? What say you?
Styles only matter when fighters are reasonably well matched. That simply isn't the case here because Frazier is one of the best ever heavies whilst Tua is a useless fucking lump. Frazier is faster, tougher, more skilled and, well, better at absolutely everything. As a result, Frazier wins almost every time. MTF
