Most Overrated MIDDLEWEIGHT champion of all time

PHP:

You are on a slippery slope there, Reed.

 

:crafty: Indeed, REED is slick.

 

But what if you don't shit on Calzaghes reign? What do you say about this Mr. Smarty Pants?

 

Then you overrate it Mr Chelsea fan. Apart from right at the beginning and right at the end it was largely mediocre, just like Hopkins reign.

 

How So???...



REED:dunno:

 

Monzon was a meat and potatoes fighter.

Very unflashy, but totally solid. Skilled, patient, focused, tough, with decent power and range.

I think Monzon is the best middleweight champion ever.

 

REED Doesn't DISagree Necessarily, but the Thing is, Monzon's "Greatness" Doesn't JUMP OUT @ U...Where Some Fighters "Greatness" Can B Illustrated in BREVITY, Monzon's is the Type that SNEAKS UP on U...

REED Prefers "Greatness" that's OBVIOUS, as Opposed to Something the Watcher EVENTUALLY Picks Up On...



REED:hammert:

 

I can understand that for sure. He didn't have the obvious natural talent that a Pacquiao, Duran, Leonard, Roy etc have.

He was just a really good fighter. I guess he's one of those guys that's just much harder to beat than he looks, and much more effective. There wasn't one area where Monzon was exceptional, but overall he was an exceptional fighter.

I guess he's not that different to the likes of Marquez, although Marquez has flashier combos :kidcool:

 

Marquez is a Combination Puncher w/POWER...Admittedly, REED was LATE to the Marquez "Party", but After Watching him All But Neutralize Manny Pac TWICE, his Greatness SHINED BRIGHT....



REED:hammert:

 

For one thing, he was a hell of a lot, "greater," than Roy Jones, despite not possessing any of the same natural athletic talents.

There are a lot of fighters who have obvious, "jump out at you," qualities which are often markers or pre-requisites for greatness, but they fall down in other, critical ways. Conversely, someone like a Carlos Monzon, or a George Foreman, do relatively few things in great order, but still effectively impose themselves on very good, & sometimes even all-time great rivals.

Did Pacquiao being a potential world-beater at 140-147lbs. jump out at you, based on his exploits between 122-130?

 

Spot on.

 

Based on WHAT, Exactly???...& Please Leave your TRANSPARENT CONTEMPT for Roy Jones by the Wayside, While U're @ It....

U Certainly CAN'T Say Monzon was "Greater" than Roy Lb for Lb, Because Monzon NEVER Accomplished Anything PAST Middleweight...If U're Saying Monzon was a "Greater" MIDDLEWEIGHT, then REED Wholeheartedly AGREES...If U're Saying MORE than that, U've Got to Back that Up w/Something...

So Again, What EXACTLY Brings YOU to the Conclusion that Carlos Monzon was "a Hell of a Lot GREATER" than Roy Jones???...Choose your Words CAREFULLY, Ricardo Lopez Lover...



REED:hammert:

 

Get side-tracked easily, do we? That was an aside to the point of the post. I see your defences are well & truly up-&-running. You've completely lost sight of the topic we were discussing.

 

Good post.

Up until about two years ago, I'd have agreed with you to a word. I have Monzon at #2, all-time, now. In the end, I found Greb's record impossible to refute, despite the missing footage. Monzon eclipses all other comers at 160, IMO.

 

So YOU Bring Roy Jones Into the Thread, yet it's REED that's "Side-Tracked Easily"???...



REED::

 

YOUR "# 1 All Time Middleweight" is a Guy U've Admittedly NEVER SEEN Fight???...HOW Do U Rate/Rank a Guy U've NEVER EVER Seen???



REED:scratcher:

 

With respect, yes. The whole point of the post I made was something you totally by-passed, & we are now talking about Roy Jones. Jones is not the topic, he was an example as an end to making a point --- that is, Monzon did not possess the natural talents Jones did, but he made himself greater by virtue of his career.

The discussion is whether or not greatness need jump out at you, not the trial of Roy Jones Jr.

 

It was not something I took lightly. I mean, I long went with Monzon, simply because I was so impressed with his efforts on film. He always struck me as a better man than Hagler, & several other, highly-touted MW champions. I was always aware of Greb's record, but eventually I came to the conclusion that his resume is simply undeniable. I was trying to come up with another career MW Champion (for the most part, anyway) who would beat Gene Tunney at Light-Heavy...I honestly could not, & that certainly included Monzon.

Hell, in the last few fights of his career, Greb appears to have bested Tiger Flowers at least once, & quite possibly twice. With one-eye? Unreal. Loughran, Rosenbloom, Norfolk, Walker, Smith, Gibbons, McTigue...Jesus, this man has a stronger resume than Ezzard Charles!!! It's hardly unfair to install him as the greatest MW in history.

 

But U State "Monzon is Greater than Jones" as if it's an Accepted FACT...It ISN'T...U're MAKING it about Roy Jones by Imposing YOUR PERSONAL OPINION of who's "Greater" Into the Discussion...


REED:hammert:

 

It is my opinion. It's also not the point of the discussion. You're still missing that.

 

Again, REED Stopped SHORT of Calling Monzon "Overrated"...REED just Pointed Out that he Didn't Really "Get" Monzon to the Degree that Others have...REED has the UTMOST Respect for Monzon's BODY of Work, but Viewing him on a Fight by Fight Basis, his "Greatness" Doesn't JUMP OUT @ U...



REED:dunno:

 

Monzon is great and has a better legacy than Roy at MW. But let's face it, as much as I hate RJJ homers, the 160 lb RJJ beats Monzon 10 out of 10 times. Not that that's anything to be ashamed of, Roy was a lot bigger than him (to say nothing of the speed factor).

 

sounds pretty foolish, doesnt it? not only that, the guy was a well known cheat.