Fightbeat's MMA Top 10 Pound-for-Pound

IMO, Melendez is a more complete fighter than Nick Diaz.

 

:clapagain:

 

And you call my posts retarded.

Please keep your laughable sentiments within the confines of this forum where people don't know much about anything non-UFC.

 

Diaz has a GLARING weakness, Melendez does not.

 

I would agree with you about Melendez over Diaz. I wouldn't have either one on a P4P top 10 list.

 

Sure thing kiddo, can you show me this "#1 in the world ranking" that Kawajiri held in 2005?

 

http://www.bloodyknux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7529

This is when Kawajiri just beat Shaolin Ribeiro, the consensus number 1 in the world. He fell out in the next rankings, because back then they didn't do it every month or two, it was more like every 4 or 5 months. Once Gomi beat Kawajiri, he became the man, so to speak. And was one everyone's P4P list. Sherdog even had Gilbert Melendez has high as 2, at around 2007 after beating Kawajiri.

 

This is as recent as 2008, when BJ had just beaten Sherk, before GSP molested him.

Yeah...seems like a pretty good resume. Considering he beat all the bolded on that list.

 

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/rankings/lightweight/detail/1902528

Most recent aggregate consensus pick.

Melendez had wins over #4 Aoki, #8 Kawajiri, #13 Guida, #19 Thomson.

BJ has wins over #7 Florian, #10 Sherk, and the fraud ranking of #16 for Gomi, which is an absolute joke of a rating who has dropped 5 of his last 8, and just got absolutely schooled by Guida.

Fraud number 1 Edgar has wins over #10 Sherk, #12 BJ Penn, and a meaningless win over Jim Miller when they were both neophytes in the sport.
He's also gotten his ass kicked twice by Gray Maynard, draw be damned.

 

thats pretty decent shit right there, TLC, I stand corrected. Call it old age, I seriously don't remember Kawajiri being ranked that high.

One thing I did notice, is you sure don't give Diaz any credit for his win over Gomi, yet in these lists you give you state him as the "man". just sayin....::

 

That was the best win of Diaz's career.

But he's not a LW anymore.

If you even consider whatever the hell that weight class was, LW.

Technically, WW.

 

Wasn't it 160?

 

Why would you have Melendez over Diaz and also not have Diaz in the top 10?

 

I don't think either one has beat anyone to garner a top 10 p4p ranking. Would I rank them top 10 of their perspective weight divisions? yes.

I would rank Melendez over Diaz because Melendez has a very recent (dominating) win over Aoki who was pretty much everyone's #2 LW in the world at the time. Diaz as much as I like him has not beat a top 10 WW to speak of.

 

They weighed whatever they weighed. PRIDE didn't use WCs for non tournament bouts. Probably Diaz weighed 165 or something.

 

Yeah, you're right. Pride was all about the show, fuck the specificsartie: Wasn't their LW tourney at 160?

 

Anyone that gives credence to a LW ranking that has Penn ranked beneath Florian and Sherk has zero credibility.

And there is no way in hell that Kawajiri deserves to be on any Top 10 list after the showing against Melendez. That is just ridiculous.

Here's one for you. Let's consider Kawajiri, Aoki and Ishida for a second. Combined, these 3 world beaters are 2-4 in fights outside of Japan. Now consider that those two wins were against Beerbohm and Justin Wilcox. Not exactly impressive.

It's not that no one pays attention to non UFC fights. It's just that these 3 guys have looked like dog shit outside the comfort of Japan.

I've seen all 3 in exciting, tough fights in Japan and hoped that would translate in the US. It hasn't.

 

Because it is an aggregate list and some ranking guys don't have BJ on the list. Jesus. :bangh:


Also not sure what on Earth fighting location has to do with anything, especially considering three of those losses were to Gilbert Melendez. And the whole point of this discussion was how good Melendez was. As far as the other loss, Ishida lost a decision to Ribeiro when Shaolin was the number 1 LW in the world. Big deal.

And no, it isn't ridiculous. Kawajiri's body of work doesn't drop him out of the top 10 just for losing against probably the most, or the 2nd most(depends on if you rate Alvarez higher) talented guy in the division.

Otherwise Sherk shouldn't be on there either, or Florian either.

 

It doesn't matter how the list is formed or calculated. Having a guy ranked below fighters he recently beats means the list isn't worth the bandwidth it took to create it. I fully understand why he is ranked 12th, but it still doesn't make the list any more credible.

And a current ranking shouldn't take into account a fighters complete "body of work". It should be based on recent results. So when is the last time Kawajiri beat a legitimate Top 10 LW?

Kawajiri is 1-2 in his last 3. And no matter how highly you rank Aoki and Melendez, Kawajiri didn't make it out of the 1st round with either.

To me that's what a ranking should be based on. And Kawajiri has done nothing recently to warrant Top 10 consideration. For that matter, in looking at the list you posted, the following don't belong either:

Florian
Sherk
Pettis

 

You act as if you are incapable of thought. It's pretty bad. BJ's ranking is non-issue if you have the mental capacity to understand why is rated as such.


Secondly, your logic is astounding.

So apparently, the top 10 should have SIX fighters.

Good thinking. Unless of course, we are going to put the likes of Dennis Siver in to the top 10 in lieu. :doh:


Also LOL at when's the last time Kawajiri beat a top 10 fighter.

JZ and Thomson are FAR more respected in MMA circles than ANYONE Diaz has beaten at 170lbs.

Who the hell has Diaz beaten in the top 10? Oh, that's right, no one outside of the extremely questionable Daley, who was overrated as hell. He was too busy beating up on KJ Noons, Cyborg, Zaromskis, and the like.

Not to mention WW is a pretty weak division past the top 7 or so guys.

 

Two of which you picked to walk right through Diaz. So, yeah, you can bank on that.

Yeah welter is weak:

GSP
Fitch
Shields
Penn
Koscheck
Sanchez
Alves
Condit
Kampmann
Johnson
Diaz
Kim
McDonald
Story


And that's off the top of my head.

Face it. You're push to rank Kawajiri in the Top 10 is a lame attempt to somehow bolster Aoki. Not to mention, calling Gilbert's resume 'second to none' at 155 is also a very lame attempt to bolster Aoki.

Hell, even Clay Guida's resumes shits all over Gilbert's. Period.

 

Im not pushing anything. Kawajiri is top 10 by just about anyone who covers MMA for a livetime.

Just because you barely know anything of the sport doesn't mean you speak truth.

I also like how half the guys you mentioned aren't even that good.
Diego Sanchez is arugably the number 10 fighter at the weight. That's not good.

And there is almost no talent outside of the UFC either.

Clay Guida's resume. ::

You are a funny guy.

Embarrassingly ignorant.

 

Really???



:::::: Pay special attention to both Thompson and Melendez being on Clay's resume. Guida has fought far better comp over his career than Melendez. Only an idiot would claim otherwise.

Seriously, your blind love for Aoki makes you say stupid things. Melendez is one of the top 3 or 4 Lightweights in the world but his resume is far from "second to none" at 155.

 

Well if you are going to include scrubs like Diaz, Danzig, Griffin, Thomas and Huerta you may as well throw on Sato and a washed up Kato, and an undersized Takaya too.

And it probably would help to clarify that Guida lost to most of those guys.

 

Well, that might matter if you hadn't said:

If you want to amend that moronic comment to reflect wins, then maybe you'll have a point.

And don't be a complete idiot. Huerta was 19-1 and a top 10 LW's when Guida fought him. And Tyson Griffin was 9-1 and fought a title eliminator 2 fights after Guida.

You're fucking incredible. You're all over Josh Thompson's nuts and then call Huerta and Griffin scrubs when they fought Guida.

Seriously, the depths of your stupidity have no bounds. None at all.

 

Huerta is and was always a scrub. He wasn't a top ranked fighter ever...mainly because the MMA pubs don't value wins over Jason Dent and the likes as quality wins.

Also...LOL at 9-1.

Yeah, a real world beater. The UFC's LW division was complete shit during this time. Which explains why guys like Griffin and Huerta were winning fights, over the likes of Thiago Tavares and David Lee and those excellent fighters. ::

 

No but seriously, since you actually know what you are talking about.

Show me a rankings that had Huerta top 10 before the Guida fight.

And he's pretty scrubby, losing to guys like Pat Curran. ::
Griffin likewise.

 

You can revise it all you want, but they were far better than any names on Gilbert's resume other than Kawa, Thompson and Ishida without question.

Don't worry though. I suspect you'll be in here after Dream 17 talking about what a great fighter Rich Clementi is after he fights Aoki. Right?:giggle:

Isn't that your M.O.? Boost anyone that can possibly make it look like Aoki is worth a shit? Mark my word, at some point you'll be trying to explain what a tough opponent Clementi is. :goingmad:

 

TLC, in your efforts to make valid points, you kinda tripped over your own words and stepped on your own shoelace, thusly falling down. Get back up, brush yourself off and consider the following:

A p4p SHOULD consists of 3 variables: Career record, strength/legiticimacy of opponent at TIME OF FIGHT ( not strength in hindsight), and a cumulative review of 5 most recent fight performances/results.

Those variables are how I argue p4p threads. What TRP is saying about Kawajiri is correct - he has 2 of my variables under control but lacks the third (and most important - recent performance).

Just an outside perspective to maybe help you understand how others besides yourself like to think in a debate like this.

 

It's a stay busy fight.

And this has nothing to do with Aoki.

And not really, considering Kato and Sato were both top 10 LWs at one point.