If the Ruiz fight never happened...

He beats tarver like his name was Richard hall and continues to dominate for at least 2 years after the date of the Ruiz fight.

 

I think that too. I don't think he'd have played with Tarver - Tarver was way better than Richard Hall or David Telesco, but he beats him clearly and keep on about his business for a good couple of years.

 

Fair enough. But it's not as if RJJ hadn't lost every round leading up to the knock-out. So let's not pretend it was a simple matter of Johnson landing a lucky punch against a guy who hadn't recovered fully from his last knock-out loss.

Johnson, unlike Tarver even, controlled every second of the pace their fight, and gave RJJ no room to move, no opportunities to pot-shot, and was there, willing and able to absorb the incoming he needed to in order to get to RJJ - not just to knock him out, but to win round after round.

Johnson used feints. Mid-distance. Head movement. A short jab. A low stance. Combinations. Fearlessness. None of these, including the success Johnson had round after round, had anything to do with whatever residual effects remained from RJJ's knock-out loss to Tarver.

 

In that fight he did do something special. Very special. He fought RJJ at the perfect distance, moved his head, controlled the pace of the fight, punched with RJJ, didn't allow himself to be intimidated or deterred by RJJ's speed, threw combinations, stayed low, threw a short jab, and besides knocking RJJ out, won damn near every round. And you want to tell me he did nothing special?

People like to act like Johnson just landed a lucky punch and that RJJ lost simply because he hadn't fully recovered from his KO loss to Tarver.

Why didn't RJJ ever rematch Johnson? Why did Johnson win every round? Why did Johnson have success, round after round, whether he was landing on RJJ's chin or not?

Why did Johnson win round after round despite RJJ's hand-speed having been fully intact?

Johnson fought RJJ like nobody else ever has. And beat him more convincingly than anyone every has. Whether you want to give Johnson credit for that or not is up to you. But if I were a RJJ supporter, I'd certainly not want to believe that he managed to lose every round against a fighter whose skills are as rudimentary and whose defense is as lacking as Margarito and Andrade's are purported to be.

Give Johnson some credit. He had an easier time with RJJ than any fighter to date has. And it wasn't a fluke.

 

Not the way Johnson did, no. Johnson fought RJJ at mid-distance. He didn't smother his punches. And he didn't stay outside when the going got tough like so many have, giving RJJ all he ever needed to win - the ability to dictate the pace, pot-shot his way to victory, and put his opponent into a shell.

Johnson took shots but was undeterred. And that was the difference. And he jabbed RJJ from mid-distance, threw in combination, moved his head, and went to RJJ's body consistently.

If you want to pretend, or mistake that for what fighters like Gonzalez, Telesco and Sosa did, then you're living in a fantasy world.

 

Dude...

Roy lost confidence after being knocked the fuck out in his previous fight. Glen Johnson would have been cannon-fodder for the Jones of the telesco/Hall fights. He was just a straight forward pressure fighter. Jones woul dhave made him look silly.

 

Doub w/More of his PSUEDO Keen Eye BULLSHIT...Just like Margarita & Andrade Employed "Subtle Science" Defensively, Right???....



REED

 

I actually agree with Double - Johnson is a bad style match for Roy at any time. Even prime Roy has a difficult night ( still wins but has difficulties).

 

Tarver, Calzaghe, Hopkins, Lebedev - Roy showed enough against all those guys to hint at how he would have handled them in his prime. Johnson didn't just catch Roy and KHO, he pretty much dominated him and crowded him out from the first bell.

It's just an awkward style match for Roy. Prime Roy wins, but it'd be very competitive.

 

Nah man. Watch the Bryant Brannon fight. Johnson is better than Brannon but he would just be more durable in taking the whipping.

 

Jones Jr at his his best beats Johnson but you can't compare him to Bannon. Johnson is not just more durable, he's better in every conceivable way.

 

But they are the same color:bow:

 

You're a great poster normally, but this post is nuts. Richard Hall would have given post-Tarver 2 Roy problems.

 

Post 39 is pretty much my reply to this,no point retyping it. Im not saying Johnson wins but I think it'd be a difficult night and Johnson would legitimately win a few rounds.

 

Glen Johnson is a MAN's Man...The Quintessential TOUGH GUY...Can we Please CEASE & DESIST w/Portraying him as Some Sort of Pocketfighting SAVANT...There was VERY LITTLE "Subtle Science" to Glen Johnson's Approach...

He's an IN-YOUR-FACE Pressure Fighter, who ISN'T Afraid of Taking Some to GIVE Some...The Type of Guy that a PRIME Roy Jones Wiped his Ass w/....



REED

 

Does anybody know the nature of Roy's weight cutting before the Ruiz fight? Did he always hover around 175 or did he typically weigh 180-185 and cut some water weight? If he did weigh around 200lbs for the Ruiz fight I don't understand why he'd need to burn 25lbs of muscle to make 175. Surely he could've dehydrated himself a bit to make weight.

With that said, the move back down clearly took a big toll on Roy.

 

No one willl know that for sure but it's clear that RJJ put on a lot of muscle mass for the Ruiz fight. It was obvious, just as obvious as the muscle loss for the Tarver fight.

 

IIRC RJJ was typically at 185, maybe a couple lb less, in the ring. He weighed in at 200 lbs for the Ruiz fight and didn't appear to have an ounce of fat on him, so that's 15+ lbs of muscle he'd have to cut - BEFORE he started cutting water. That is insane, especially in the timeframe he had to do it in.

 

Roy Typically Walked Around in the 183-185 Range, btwn Lightheavyweight Fights...He Came INTO the Ruiz Pre-Fight Camp Weighing 192 & was SHOCKED when his Official Weight for the Fight was 193...Nonetheless, when HBO Weighed Roy on Fightnight, he was Right @ 199 1/2-200lbs...

After the Ruiz Fight, Roy's Intent was to REMAIN @ Heavyweight...He Flirted w/Corrie Sanders & Lennox Lewis, Made a Half Assed Offer to Mike Tyson & LEGITIMATELY TRIED to Make a Fight w/Evander Holyfield Happen...Holyfield Eventually Fought James Toney Instead, but All the While, Roy MAINTAINED his Heavyweight Body...

The Ruiz Fight Happened in March & Roy Owed HBO @ Least 1 More Bout B 4 the End of the Year...November Rolled Around & Tarver was the Most Viable Opponent...He'd Already Called Roy Out @ the Ruiz Press Conference AND he had 1 of the Lightheavyweight Belts that Roy had Vacated...So within 4-5 Weeks, Roy CUT AWAY @ that Mackie Shilstone Developed Body, Going from 200lbs to the Lightheavy Limit in the Process...

@ 34-35 Years of Age, No Less...


REED

 

Roy burned lean muscle tissue rapidly and that can often result in the decline of lean heart tissue and degradation of the nervous system. He hurt himself this way and the degree of same is a matter of conjecture and supposition, but it happened regardless. He is probably the only fighter in recent memory to have done this. Most guys like Hatton, or Gatti or Rahman or Bowe were cutting fat and water, Roy basically cut water and muscle.

 

Why didn't Roy just get Tarver to move up instead of the other way around

 

Good info, good post.

That'd do it.

 

Roy is country, he probably had some fucked up notion of "doing things right".

Either that or HBO had his ass in a bind over the weight.......but I reckon Roy figured more on the "tradition" of 175 than on the technicalities.

 

How did Roy cut the muscle in the first place?

Once guys get that lean, they often just resign themselves to not being able to make that weight anymore, from a physical standpoint.

What does cutting muscle even entail, I know he dieted himself sick, but surely it's not as simple.

 

I dont see how people can be blind to the fact that Jones was obviously a different fighter coming back down from Heavyweight

I'm no Roy fan, but hating like that is just poisonous

 

Because the light heavyweight titles were on the line.

 

Because he wanted to break that record to be the first man in 100 years MW-HW titles. Well I guess that was his motivation for the first Tarver fight.

 

He cant have been that serious, else hed have fought Lewis instead of Ruiz. That was a parlour trick, not a sincere attempt at history.

 

You act like RJJ didn't get plenty of licks in on Johnson.

I'm tired of all the excuses for RJJ. He fights crap fighters like Hall and Telesco, and guess what, he beats them with ease and looks like a genius.

Then, guess what. He goes on a string of fighting capable fighters, guys he would've ducked if he could've, and he suddenly appears to be a mere mortal.

 

:Hanzkiller: