Is your opinion that Wladamir is really good?

He's alright, one of the best of a horrendous time in boxing

but he's vulnerable to anyone with a punch and balls

 

Wlad is More EFFECTIVE than "Good", Per Se...His Natural TALENT is Undeniable & his Run of DOMINANCE Speaks for Itself...But The MANNER of Wlad's Victories, the OPPOSITION & those Early KO Losses R the Things Being Held Against Him...

For All of Wlad's Gifts & Abilities, he RARELY Puts Forth the BREATH TAKING Performances U Expect from "The Heavyweight Champion of the World"...



REED:dancingBaby:

 

That Reminds REED of What Else he Holds AGAINST Wlad (& Vitali)...The INSISTENCE on Having an All-Klitschko GANG BANG of the Heavyweight Division....We Know who the 2 Best Guys in the Division R, but we'll Never EVER Know who THE Best Guy of the Era was...



REED:limp:

 

It really makes me wish the Cruiserweight division wasn't a historic wasteland of promotional inneptitude.

Somebody explain to me why Haye and Adamek have to even venture into the Heavyweight division when they should be fighting each other in fan friendly fights, for Championships and Million$ paydays in the Cruiserweight Division?

 

Cruiserweight suffers thanks to a lack of traditional history and from its proximity to heavyweight. Esteemed writers {:wack:} like Thomas Hauser, referring to Cruiserweight as "Loserweight" did not help. With a thinning-out heavyweight division, the financial gains are just too good to turn down, especially when anyone with a bit of footspeed and agility can turn the trick as easily as Haye and Adamek have.

 

agREED...

Eddie Chambers Would B a Pretty GOOD Crusierweight as Well...Certainly BETTER than he is @ Heavy...Haye, Adamek, Chambers, Steve Cunningham, Marco Huck, Danny Green...Johnathon Banks is Usually ENTERTAINING...There Could B Some Meaningful & MEMORABLE Crusierweight Fights Being Made...

In Hindsight, REED Should've Been SUSPICIOUS of Haye's Motives when he Decided to MOVE UP to Heavy the Instant he Unified & Got Exposed to American Audiences in the Maccaroni Fight...Instead of COMPLETELY Unifying ALL of the Belts, Haye Got the Job PARTLY Done, then Ditched the Division Altogether, 1nce his All Around Visibility INCREASED...

To Describe Haye's Career in a WORD, REED would Call him "Opportunistic"...

REED:Lok:

 

Wlad is a pretty poor fighter (in an atg discussion). He has great talent and decent skills, but lacks the polishing and intangible to perform at a high level against good opposition.

I honestly dont think he would be dominant in the 90s, and even in the 80s

 

Yeah, there's no way he'd beat guys like Holmes,
Tyson and Lewis. I personally think he loses to the best versions of Holyfield and Bowe, too.

 

:laughing:

hilarious

 

I think he gets destroyed by both Bowe and holyfield

I'm not even sure he beats guys like morisson, ruddock or even primes pinklon thomas and greg page, tough he would be the favorite over them.

i would have like to see him against michael spink

 

Holyfield was too tough and had too much heart and determination for a semi-bitch like Wladimir....

Tyson would get inside and land to the body and head, I don't see Wlad chin taking many uppercuts...

I give you BOWE....he was lazy..if they fight 10 times...Bowe will still win 6-7 times...

 

Bowe was a great inside fighter, and wlad is clueless in the inside. His usual holding tactic wouldn't be as useful against a big strong guy like bowe

 

Agreed, while I perfectly understand why they don't want to fight each other, and probably wouldn't be interested in a fight between the 2. Fact is that we don't know who the top dog in the division is, and that wlad didn't fight the best 2 fighters he could have

 

He's a good fighter but a mediocre champion who just so happens to be around at the right time. He got nailed by one solid punch all fight last night and it had him holding on like he was on dancing with the stars for 10-15 seconds.

 

Absolutely. To a Tee. He has taken relatively few chances, and has parlayed the rabid desire, in Britain, to see the golden smiles wiped off the Klitschko faces, into a career-best payday despite having faced Tomasz Bonin {scrub}, Monte Barrett {shot} Nikolai Valuev {freakshow} John Ruiz {shot, former Cruiser, did I say shot?} and Audley Harrison {shot, bum, shot, bum, afraid, bum} at Heavyweight.

Putting his opportunism into perspective....Barrett had been knocked out by Wlad 2 years before Haye even turned pro.issed:

 

I wasn't just suspicious, I thought it was pretty obvious he made that move purely for money.

Though I admit at one point I actually thought he might bring some excitement to the division etc, got caught up in the hype I guess.

 

Haye was cashing in on RAMPANT jingoism in British sporting circles......I would regard "Great Black Hope" as being inappropriate language, it was never, ever racial, but it was definitely ethno-centric so far as the Brits vs Gerrmany, East vs West angle was played up in the press. This was their man. He would do it. He had the speed. He had the looks. He had the lingo. He was going to bash this big dumb charmless moron up and he was going to do it SEXY.

10,000 yobbish, boozed-up, chanting fucko's from Essex didn't do anything to dispel that notion.

The desire in even the polite British papers {Guardian, Telegraph} to have one of their own go over to Germany and show those krauts/commies/russians who the real boss was...........it was palpable. It reached a near fever pitch, with Haye even making his way to the ring in an England away-shirt. :wack:

Dan Rafael was even attacked by Kevin Mitchell in The Guardian today. ::

 

Hahaha ::

Yeah I agree with you, that's pretty accurate. And you're right, it wasn't racial at all, just very nationalistic.

 

I absolutely detest the type of fans that were there last night from the British side. Absolutely clueless about boxing and treat Sky Sports News as their bible, can't form an opinion of their own, basically. Not to mention they were Neanderthal Millwall fans to boot, fucking scum. Love it, just look at their pasty fucking faces when they were all interviewed before the fight, the cunts, HATE the fuckers. Pricks.

 

Fuck Bermondsey, fuck Millwall and fuck Haye. All wastes of space.

 

David Haye is THE TOEMINATOR

 

Yeah nobodies trying. Thats it. Is your real name Harold Letterman?

 

The overrating of Tyson continues...

 

I swear Haye said he was going to be like an animal in there with wlad, before the fight.

''Like tyson'' he said i'm sure.

 

He should go back to Wind In The Willows, Toe of Toe Hall.

 

In round 12 Haye went after Wladamir, if for just a moment, and had Wladamir shook.

Wladamir didn't look any different in the 12th up to the point where Haye decided to fight for a little bit...I don't see any reason why he couldn't have done that earlier and more often.

I don't know...I just know Wladamir looks bad when his opponent is throwing alot of punches and roughhousing with him - and I can't understand why more fighters don't try that tactic. Maybe they taste his power and don't want to commit to going after him.


I think Vitali could hang with any heavyweight that has ever fought. I can't believe that Wladamir could go through all time great heavyweights without getting touched by more than a punch every other round...and that's what I think is required for him to win.

I don't claim to be an authority, though...just talking...

 

I think the ramifications of that reality are now slowly percolating down through the rocks in the mind of the British media. What had become something of a point of pride quickly became an embarrassment when it became clear that the majority of people heading over were not hardcore boxing fans but just part of the "Boozed Up Brits Abroad" division. Watching Haye walk to the ring looking like the Ayatollah Khomeini in an England shirt must have really gone down badly with proper fans and the BBBofC.

Haye is now blaming the Klitschkos for what happened to him- he says was deliberately routed down a blind alley or something and that if he didn't have his own security {one member of which was that cage brawler who got bashed by Butterbean} he would have been "squashed". Lucky nobody stood on his jammy toe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/03/david-haye-wladimir-klitschko

"[There were] lots of little things in the build‑up, silly little things, but it has a bearing. For instance, when we came out on the ring walk we thought we were going to go down the path with the barriers but for some reason we were directed by his people to walk down the crowd. They tried to tell us we couldn't bring our own security, and made a song and dance about it. But we insisted on it and if I hadn't had my security I would have been squashed."

During the ring walk, Haye was manhandled by some in the crowd. "I had people trampling on my toe on the way to the ring," the 30-year-old said. "Why didn't they send us the right way, through the barricades? They did it to unsettle me. I tried to put it to the back of my mind."

Haye, who said that the little toe on his right foot had been broken in training, added: "Whether Wladimir would want to do it with me again I don't know. He has shown in the past he's the not the sort of guy to pick the toughest of challengers."

They were British fans. The state of some of them, all likkered up and screaming and grabbing him. Klitschkos were entitled to believe that his own fans would allow him to walk to the ring, surely? :dunno:

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David Haye certainly wasnt the toughest of challengers.

 

Here's the thing- even if he was the toughest of challengers, he was so preoccupied by notions of robbery, and "standing up" to people, and making his point, that he allowed it to seep into his game plan and throw him off.

Its like the mistakes that were typical of Vargas two biggest losses, vs Tito and Oscar. He was so swayed, so caught up in this macho BS of Mexico vs PR that he wouldn't take a count properly vs TITO, bouncing up way too early. He came in the ring pumped and was caught way too often way too early.

Same for the Oscar fight. He became so bound up with this notion of being a real Chicano, a real Mexican-American, a real Mexican even, and beating Oscar, that he took steroids, fought poorly down the stretch and got his ass busted up, floored and stopped.

Now, what happened with Haye was not as extreme, but it was there nonetheless.