If Marquez upsets Pacquiao...

Of course they are, because his competency and motivation can be used to paint a general picture of him as a referee, which is directly relevant to this fight. If you're building a case against someone and you want to establish a motive or conclusion about their behavior, their actions in similar situations outside of the specific circumstance in question are most certainly relevant - both from a legal and a common sense perspective.

Whether or not you THINK it is appropriate to stop the fight in that situation is what has no bearing on Steele's motives for stopping the fight; especially in light of the fact that he let fights go on that anyone with an infinitesmal degree of competence as a ring official would have uncontroversially stopped.

At the end of the day, if Steele didn't stop the fight, would there have been any controversy? No. People might have put forth the usual "if the fight were 15 rounds, Taylor gets stopped.. " arguments to defend their criminally overrated hero, but there would have been no controversy about the lack of a stoppage.

It's not just about the 2 seconds being left. It's that Taylor WAS in condition to continue, ESPECIALLY with 2 seconds left.

 

Again, EVEN IF STEELE DID IT FOR SELFISH REASONS (which is a leap, and you have nothing but circumstantial fluff to support it with) ... IT WAS STILL THE CORRECT CALL

Thus, Steele's motivation is NOT RELEVANT to me

I'm only interested in the stoppage itself, not WHO is stopping the fight. "Are you ok?" .... nothing .... "Are you ok?" nothing, looks at Lou Duva NOT at the referee... fight over, a proper stoppage

It DOESN'T MATTER if Steele was the dirtiest ref in history, the stoppage was what a referee should ALWAYS do in that situation

 

word.

I used to be on the other side of this argument on account of just 2 seconds left and Taylor being an undefeated champion and winning the fight etc...

But the fact is, if a fighter gets hurt and is dropped and he doesn't look at the ref and answer his questions the ref has no choice but to stop it.

Refereeing 101.

 

exactly

 

The ref should always ask a knocked down fighter who is miles ahead if the fighter is OK, conclude he isn't without waiting for a response, and wave off the fight, all within 2 seconds when there's only another 2 seconds left in the fight?

I disagree.

Most others would, too.. hence the controversy surrounding the fight that still exists 20 years later, and people accusing Steele of being dirty specifically for such actions.

 

I dont see an upset myself, however, one never knows.

 

I come at it from a slightly different angle - for me Chavez had accomplished the ultimate objective of boxing - incapacitated his opponent to the point that he couldn't defend himself. Scored a goal, ran into the N zone, swished the basket, did it within the 36 minutes available.

 

I see more people agreeing with me here, honestly

The people accusing him aren't looking objectively at what was actually happening and like you, they are focused on a red herring (Steele's motivation, which again does not matter) instead of one the only thing that matters: Taylor, incapacitated, not responding to any of the ref's queries

 

I understand that, but my contention WRT that is

a) taylor had already nodded

b) there was an immediately apparent reason that he didn't respond when steele spoke to him

c) steele didn't give him enough time to respond in any case. the way steele asked him was like he was running late to the airport for the most important flight of his life.

 

Strong reading comprehension.

 

all three of those things are untrue

watch it again

 

Not that this is a remotely useful argument, but if my old posts on Max are still available, I had the same opinion as yourself and cdogg many years ago.

What should tell you something is that if Steele had allowed the fight to continue, there would've been no controversy.

 

the stoppage was disgusting imo. Steele was clearly looking for a reason to stop the fight, and as indicated he seems to be acting quickly cause he knew that the time was limited.

Still, credit to chavez for an incredible finish

 

What made you change your mind?

 

Great post. Especially the opening line, which is a very salient point. If it should be stopped in the middle of any other round, it should be stopped at the end of that one just a7 readily. Thats being objective.

 

Well it would increase Marquez's & decrease Manny's.

Also, it would automatically add Pac to PBF's hypothetical resume, therefore deeming it uneccessary for PBF to fight him. Also, it would somehow prove that Manny was on PED's

 

Woulda been more disgusting if Chavez had a 'L' on his record when he'd incapacitated a guy within the 36m the games played over. Touch down, swish, goal. He won. He fucked Taylor up.

 

Hate to add another Floyd angle... BUT...

if Marquez is able to give Pacquiao fits again - not win, just give him another great fight - would you still think Pac has a chance against Floyd?

 

Yes. Different styles and mindsets between Marquez and Mayweather.

 

Thats the big thing for me too, even if he wins, HOW he wins. It depends HOW Marquez makes it competitive, if it is competitive. I am very curious to see how Pac deals with the Marquez straight right as that will be Floyds primary weapon too. Has he improved to the point where he is able to avoid it now? To be honest with you, this is the fight which will really tell us how much Pacquiao has come on since the last Marquez fight, or if the improvements were a bit of a mirage due to him having the right opponents, stylistically, in front of him.

 

Styles. Pac and Floyd fight nothing alike. How JMM does against one of them has nothing to do with the other.

 

Agreed. At face value they seem similar, both technical boxer/counter punchers etc.

But Marquez is FAR more aggressive and willing to throw combos, and basically takes more risks to land his own shots, not just shots but full combos.

And even down to their footwork, positioning, punch angles etc - they are sufficiently different to the point that one fight won't really reflect the other.

 

Pretty much how I feel.

If he whups Marquez this time I think it would be fair to say Pacquiao has improved a lot (though 50% of that is going to be down to how much better suited he is to 140 plus than Marquez).

If he has another proper close fight with Marquez then yeah, I think it would be safe to say Pacquiao's been fighting guys that are very well suited to him stylistically.

 

Pretty much my point.

Put it this way - I don't think anyone that goes life and death with Marquez at this weight can beat Floyd Mayweather.

 

if will reflect very poorly on mayweather jr. if marquez is able to defeat pacquiao in november.

 

For not fighting him?

 

sure, apparently some folks fancy pacquiao as one of the top 5 greatest fighters of all time. so instead marquez is the one who gets all the glory and trumps the other two career accomplishment wise.