Which was more brilliant?

He had almost lost to Nunn and had a draw with McCallum. And a win over Barkley?? Big F'ing deal. Win over Williams was nice (but I thought that was after the Roy fight? I'm not going to look.) And don't forget that Griffin took him back to school in his next fight. At what should have been a better weight for him because Toney was so 'drained' against Roy.

Toney is overrated by many. You have to ignore his shit performances and focus on his excellent wins to rate him so highly. He is like Duran that way.

 

I'm curious which performance(s?) you think were better? Imo, he doesn't have any other performance remotely close to Leonard I.

 

I disagree

His performances against Buchanan (notwithstanding the strange ending) and in the DeJesus returns were absolutely brilliant, dominant performances

He made Palomino, an excellent champion and a strong, difficult welterweight, look like a 2 fight novice... that too was pretty ridiculous

those are easily up there with the Leonard fight

 

:boohoonly if you ignore an entire fucking decade and one of the most ridiculously dominant title reigns in the history of boxing

 

I thought Benitez/Duran was a close fight. It was a good performance by Benitez to win, but hardly a virtuoso one.

 

i think those were better performances than his win over leonard.

leonard engaged the whole fight and closed strong. i wouldnt call it a dominant win, just a clear win.

the palomino fight was superb.

 

Toney would beat the Lacy that fought Calzaghe right now. Lacy was absolutely tailor made for Toney. A slow, aggressive come forward fighter? Toney chews him up and shits him out. He wouldn't even break a sweat.

It wasn't just easy for RJJ because Toney was drained - RJJ made it look easy because a) RJJ was THAT GOOD, the best 168 lb fighter of all time, and b) Toney ALWAYS, ALWAYS had problems with fast guys who boxed from the outside (see Michael Nunn).

Aside from that, Lacy was just a godawful one-dimensional fighter whose only real skill was taking a punch. As Cdogg said, people that picked him over Calzaghe did so primarily because they thought very little of Cal, not because they viewed Lacy highly.

I didn't think Cal was the real deal until he beat Kessler. To me, that is his best win, and I did pick Kessler in that fight.

 

yup, Duran was sharp as a tack in those fights

 

Ummmm...no. Looks like you're still not letting those pesky facts get in the of what you have to say.

 

:giggle::giggle::giggle:

 

:laugh11:I know, man, it's just awesome, the things he says

 

:scratcher:

 

Toney was undefeated at the time of the Jones fight. What "facts" are you referring to?

 

:laugh11:

he fought those guys before he fought Jones.

 

Fair enough. My bad. Point is though....he was undefeated when he fought Jones. I thought people were refering to actually losses, not losses in their minds. I wasn't even considering the names of the fighters they were talking about.

 

Toney-Johnson was a pretty damn close fight. I had Toney winning by a point. Toney-Tiberi was not a close fight, Toney was absolutely outworked and Tiberi was robbed.

 

This sums up what I thought. I was the leader of the "Lacy is a bum" bandwagon and yet I still thought he'd beat Slapper Joe.

I still don't rate Joe highly. His win over Hopkins was damn close and his win over Jones is meaningless. Fact is, Joe didn't want either guy five or six years prior to when he fought them. Especially Roy Jones.

I love the story where one of Joe's kids was worried prior to Joe fighting Roy. Apparently the kid had been watching old Roy Jones fights and was worried for his dad. Joe told him something like, 'don't worry, he can't fight like that anymore."

Pretty much closes the book on Joe in my mind.

 

Yank horseshit. Hopkins pulled the plug on a meeting with Joe years before they finally met.

 

True story?

Interesting.

Joe Calzaghe is underrated. He was an exceptional fighter. He wouldn't have beaten either a prime Jones or Prime Hopkins though. I agree with you there.

 

Hopkins pulled the plug on Don King you mean.

 

Calzaghe's best win was against Kessler. The Hopkins win has to mean something, given Hopkins recent success. But the RJJ win was obviously meaningless. I think Joe fought with loaded gloves on several occasions. I know I will probably catch heat for saying that, but I truly believe it.

 

ld:

 

they were referring to fights in which Toney looked like complete shit and should've lost. the fact he was still undefeated by the time he faced RJJ, given those match-ups, was luck, and not because he'd been a dominant fighter prior to RJJ's beating him.

You might argue that a focused and in shape Toney had showed himself to be a dominant fighter prior to his facing RJJ, but a focused and in shape Toney is not the version who showed up against RJJ. He was closer to being the one that Tiberi and Johnson both arguably beat, and perhaps performed worse.

 

And Toney had essentially ONE dominant win... against... against... are you ready?

IRAN BARKLEY, a weight drained punching bag by that time

 

no, he was dominant against Holyfield

 

Holyfield? come on

Holyfield has been finished for 10 years, and was finished when he fought Toney

You put a 1993 Holyfield in there that night and he is beating the shit out of that fat boy

 

don't necesserly disagree, but holyfield was still a pretty good fighter at this stage, as proven by his showing against Byrd just before, and Valuev and Oquendo afterward

 

Hopkins has become quite overrated it seems. Calzaghe would be the favorite over Hopkins at anytime during their overlapping reigns, imo.

Hopkins isn't going to go 0-10 against Calzaghe or anything like that, but he isn't winning 1/2 of their fights, either. And I don't think he'd win their imagined first fight.

Calzaghe was bigger and threw too many punches to get stymied by Hopkins' version of John Ruiz's style of fighting. He'd simply outpoint Hopkins like he did when they actually fought even though he spotted him a round + a point right away.

 

you're crazy

an old decrepit Hopkins arguably beat Calzaghe.

Prime Hopkins had a pretty good workrate, and could keep up with Calzage.

The point is moot, as Joe never would have faced a prime Hopkins

 

hold on a sec, he lost a one-sided decision to Byrd, who only failed to stop him because he can't punch

Oquendo was garbage and Valuev is maybe the worst fighter I have ever seen