I think Magarito P4P beats stink-Hop

1. he's not predictable; ask Daniel Santos
2. with plaster, he hits very hard without expending energy
3. most pepole expected Cotto to destroy him too but the plaster won
4. you're under-estimating the ability of plaster not only to cause physical damage but also to dictate the pace and course of the fight. if Hopkins feels that plaster, he's not going to like it, and he'll start backing up and going into a shell the way Cotto did in order to get away from it
5. with plaster, Margarito's offense becomes his defense
6. he's one dimensional with plaster, but it's not like he throws one punch at a time or only knows how to throw right hands
7. Margarito's style and technique was developed to optimize the power of plaster

 

I fucking wish you were trolling

Oh, and Santos beat Margarito

 

he did, but not without getting mugged by the plaster. and recall that the fight was stopped due to a cut, and went to the score-cards, just as Margarito's plaster had begun to take over.

Margarito with plaster is for opponents a disaster.

 

This is probably worst then me saying Ivan Calderon could go up several weight classes and beat Morales a few years back. :scared2:

 

it is way worse, don't worry

 

wait. did Calderon fight with plaster in his gloves? i can't remember. wait. do you mean a p4p match-up between Calderon and Morales? what happens in that fight? because the one i'm talking about - between Margarito and Hopkins - is p4p. did you forget?

 

the best part of Double's deranged rants about Margarito and even moreso Felix Trinidad si that not only does he simply state as a proven fact that they had loaded gloves for every fight but he also claims when they are starting to work, how they work, etc. as if it were a matter of record

Especially in the case of Trinidad (who was found to be using a non-kosher wrapping TECHNIQUE, not an actual foreign substance) his theories are ridiculous and fall apart when scrutinized even to a minimal extent

 

::

 

:hammert:

 

Well, I like how my highly qualified statement that Margarito, with his hand-wraps, in a P4P fight, could win a decision over Hopkins, has now been interpreted by the Hopkins worshippers as my saying that Margarito would beat him in a real boxing match.

 

you don't know for certain if

A) He always had handwraps
B) What exactly those handwraps, if present, did, i.e. how big an advantage did they actually provide

When you combine the above with your glaringly misguided assessment of each fighter's strengths and weaknesses (particularly Bernard's) you end up with a thread that your brethren find hilarious

 

It's impossible. I hate to use that word in boxing but Margarito has absolutely no chance in beating Hopkins.

 

A) How does this matter?
B) Yes. Given that Margarito/Hopkins P4P is a hypothetical match-up, I'm having to make assumptions about how big an advantage his plaster wraps would give him.

 

Do you think Diego Corrales would have beaten Floyd Mayweather had he (Corrales) been using plaster wraps?

 

A) It matters more than anything else since you use it as the major piece of evidence when picking Margarito or Trinidad mythical matchups

B) But you don't do it just in hypothetical matchups... you do it constantly when discussing the past fights of both of these guys... You have on numerous occassions stated as undisputed fact that Trinidad had loaded gloves in all of his fights prior to september 29, 2001... you have stated as proven fact what damage these loaded gloves did, even speculated how much the gloves WEIGHED!

You don't make assumptions... you say things like "well, Santos won the fight on a technicality but he was lucky because Margarito's wraps were just starting to take effect" ... WHAT? How the hell do you know any such thing? where is the evidence? what on Earth are you talking about??

 

Watch the fight! The Santos fight stoppage was controversial precisely because Margarito was coming on big-time, and looked to be taking over the fight.

Actually, when it comes to Trinidad and Margarito, it's every bit as reasonable and correct to assume their gloves were illegal as it is to assume they were not. You choose to give them the benefit of the doubt. I do not. I'm no more wrong than you.

We can't venture into the hypothetical, and debate outcomes based on judgement, only to have someone (you) suddenly pull back, and declare: "No. You don't know this for sure. There's no evidence of it."

Of course there isn't! You act as if there's evidence for every prediction you make, or that your own personal biases and judgement aren't in action in every prediction you make.

It's fine to debate my points. But to dismiss them because they're opinion, as if yours are strictly fact? In a forum about "mythical" match-ups? It's silly.

 

you just don't get it

everything you say about Margarito or Trinidad is based entirely on wraps and what you think they do

"Margarito was coming on" is a vastly different statement than "Margarito's wraps were just starting to take effect"

you don't know if his hands were illegally wrapped that night, you don't know AT ALL what advantage, if any, would have been gleaned from this alleged wraps... it goes beyond speculation

we can speculate on how, for instance, Julio Cesar Chavez might deal with Ismael Laguna's jab and his quick feet by looking at how Laguna dealt with pressure and power and how Chavez dealt with speed and world-class jabs... we can delve further than that and get a rough idea of each man's psyche as a fighter, how did they deal with adversity in the ring? were they disciplined? undisciplined? did they each face someone in their careers comparable to the other? if so, how did it turn out? There are 100s of facts we can use to come to a conclusion... can we ever KNOW the outcome? of course not, but we can make reasonable, intelligent estimates based on what we KNOW of both men

you aren't doing that when it comes to Margarito or Trinidad, you are predicating everything on "well, if Trinidad has his wraps..." which is horseshit

 

On a side note I always wonder what would have happened to Margarito against a Prime Tito @147-154. Can you imagine Margarito trying to pressure Tito? he would have had his head knocked off.

 

I've seen Margarito fight without his wraps, against Mosley and others.

I've seen Margarito fight prior to getting caught with his wraps.

Thus, I've seen the impact of his gloves and the advantage it provides. It is the difference between being able to back up Cotto to the point of making him run, and the inability to discourage Mosley whatsoever with his punches.

This is educated and intelligent estimate since I'm basing it on the fact that Margarito looked dynamite with his hand-wraps, and less so without them.

Now, you can choose to give Margarito the benefit of the doubt and pretend that his win over Cotto was perfectly legitimate, and give him all of the credit. I choose not to do that because in retrospect, it seems more likely that his performance against Cotto benefited substantially from hand-wraps.

And so if you agree that Margarito had his hand-wraps against Cotto, then in fact it's not horse-shit to draw conclusions about the impact they can have. Just look at Cotto's face after that fight, and the manner in which he faded slowly but surely, despite being ahead for most of the fight.

 

no

you DO NOT KNOW if you have EVER seen Margarito with illegal wraps actually fighting, you DO NOT KNOW that

you only know for CERTAIN that he wasn't using them against Shane Mosley

 

Whatever....whatever.....wraps no wraps.....Margarito is NOT beating Bernard Hopkins....p4p..or any other way....NEVER...


It took him 11 rounds of pounding on Cotto with rocks/concrete on his fist...to finally bring him down....

Hopkins is stronger, bigger, faster, has better stamina, better technique...he is 10x the fighter Miguel Cotto was.....and 50x better than Margarito...Hopkins will punish Margarito...wraps or no wraps...

 

this^^^

 

I address this point pretty clearly. You're right. We don't know. You want to go down the list of things we don't know when it comes to a fighters? I know enough to make a judgement that is every bit as good as the next guy's, which is that Margarito was wearing his hand-wraps against Cotto.

 

word.

 

Agreed!

 

no, you don't know anything

 

for someone who actually watches a lot of boxing matches and isnt a casual fan, double L is perhaps the daftest of twats on the world wide web. its as if he gets exponentially delusional on a month by month basis.

 

What about a Stink-Hop that just got out of prison vs. a prime Margarito w/ wraps?