Forrest, prime, would be the best Fighter Pac-Man has fought above 135... Keep in mind how unspectacular Vernon was and think about that fact the next time any of you rattle off the pavlovian "Pac is the greatest fighter ever and would give any welterweight in history a brutal time" stuff... he hasn't fought a single welterweight as good as VERNON FORREST
True, but also remember that Pac has hardly lost a round above 135 lbs so just being better than his opponents so far doesn't necessarily even equal to a competitive fight
I understand all of that, but for the most part the opposition has been big names who had very little left of what had made their names in the first place
Lies. You tried to secretly imply that Pacquiao would be easy meat for Railway Workin' O'Leary but I caught your agenda:shadow:
Unspectacular? I think you let the Mayorga fights skew your perception. Mayorga just had his number for whatever reason....I speculate Forrest was just scared of him. But the Vernon Forrest who at one point was 35-0 and had just made Shane Mosely his son twice, again was pretty remarkable....and it isn't like he lost to too many guys after that outside of when he was past it and "lost" to Mora at 37 years old.
I thought he won the rematch with Mayorga Regardless, Forrest was a good, steady fighter who beat the most overrated fighter of the last 20 years... I wouldn't call him a great fighter by any stretch
forrest would be by far the best guy above welterweight pacquiao has fought and also has the style to defeat him.
They say that a jab beats speed....actually Forrest said that, my bad. Forrest controls the fight early with the jab, the height the smarts but Manny comes back late to even things out and steel a close decision. Destruction and Mayhem sees a close one!!
Forrest probably knocks Manny out. His jab, his right hand and more importantly the uppercuts he threw. Manny gets hit with all of it. Due to the difference in height and length, Forrest doesn't take a beating in the process.
While I'm not sure that Forrest knocks Manny out (That little "flip" is a tough son of a bitch) I hear what you're saying. Stylewise Forrest woul dbe a nightmare for Pacquiao. "However" (Copywright Muzse) I can't get the Mayorga fights out of my head. Sure Mayorga is bigger and taller than Pacquiao...but it was more Mayorga's agression and swarming style that seemed to bother Forrest than anything else. As such i have to think that once manny gets into his rhythm (it'll take longer than usual due to the difficulties that Forrest's style would present) and starts to swarm...Vernon will start to struggle. Destruction and Mayhem thinks this matchup is intriguing!!
It was Mayorga's wild and wide swinging that got Forrest. Pac is more measured and mixes up his punches. Brawlers will always give classic boxers like Forrest fits. Mayorga and Pacquiao are nothing alike. Mayorga has zero boxing skills. The height and reach difference is simply too great. Manny definitely loses, would probably go to sleep. And I also thought Forrest won the rematch with Mayorga.
That doesnt really amount to anything. I could just as easily say Mayorga bashed him, but he had Mosleys number, "for whatever reason."
Hey Neil, notice how people are debating the fight? How much debate would there be if I started the thread, "Who was better? 2002 Mosley or 2008 De La Hoya?" I guess I dont really need to start that thread though, do I? Unlike this ome, that isnt a debate. LOL.
Vernon would have his hand full with Manny. Sure his height and long straight right hand could work great against Pacquiao but that's simplifying things. Forrest isn't going to easily just use basic left-right 1-2 punches all night. Pacquiao has blistering foot speed and doesn't come attacking in straight lines. Vernon's right hand usually had to be set up behind his jab which is hard to land against a southpaw, let alone one as speedy as Pac who can come at all angles.
Absolutely Consider, man, this guy was considered P4P #1 by most people going into that fight with Forrest. What was it based on? Shane had a nice run as a champion at Lightweight, but it was against a very, very ordinary group of challengers, and the title was won against a marginal guy (Holliday) plus he clearly benefited heavily from the obscenely stupid modern practice of day-before weigh-ins, he was always massive compared to his opponents ... He went to Welterweight and beat Rivera, which was a good solid win... Now, the Hoya fight... Best win of his career by a long way... So he's the goods, right? He follows that win up with Diaz (a solid JUNIOR Welterweight) and two absolute scrubs in Stone and Taylor... Then he is absolutely beaten to shreds in the Forrest fight and is more than happy to survive and clinch in the rematch, showing absolutely ZERO ability to adapt and even less desire to go for broke the way the great ones always seem to do... After that it is more of the same against Wright, a couple of wins over a diminished Fernando Vargas, a very difficult win over Mayorga (who was completely annihlated before that by Hoya and Trinidad) , a loss to Cotto as well... He is rejuvenated by KOing a guy whose whole career becomes a source of speculation and controversy based on a pre-fight bombshell and that sets him up for a shot at Mayweather where he starts off well but eases into mild capitulation in losing a one-sided decision... he draws with Sergio Mora and then puts on one of the ultimate non-efforts of all time against Pacquiao... Was Mosley a good fighter? certainly... he had enough good wins that he has to be considered at least that... but was he anywhere near the fighter so many pundits insisted he was? no fucking way... There were quite a few of us on secondsout well before he was knocked off the perch by Forrest who were observing that he was a one-way fighter who basically was a fast slugger with very limited skills... at that same time, THE RING was putting out its "Greats Of The Game" issue where under the category of "Weaknesses" for Mosley, they stated "WHAT WEAKNESSES???" and gave him A+ ratings in every category... Mosley could not adapt... if he was presented with a defensive gameplan that nullified his punching style, he never once showed he could make an adjustment or alter things, he had no plan B ever... He had Hoya's number to a certain extent (anyone with great handspeed will trouble De La Hoya) and certainly deserved the decision in their first fight (an excellent fight) but the second fight was controversial and many felt Mosley got lucky... Furthermore, there is the matter of Mosley's character... I think because Mosley has a "nice guy" image, people tend to give him more credit for being a warrior than he actually deserves... ostensibly because they WANT him to be a warrior because they LIKE him more than say someone surly and obnoxious like Mayweather To me, this belief in Mosley's grit is ridiculous... Against Forrest, he seemed pretty content to go the distance and lose after the knockdown... and in the rematch, he initiated as many clinches as "The Viper" (Python would have been more accurate) and did nothing but throw overhand punch/hug opponent's waist combos... he showed no desire, no burning desire to avenge the loss... he was happy to survive... Against Winky Wright, it was the same shit, make a show of it, throw harmless rat-a-tats to Winky's hips and clinch... and lose... later on, you get the most shameful display of all as he happily smiles and taps his way to a 12-0 decision loss against Pacquiao in a fight that he knew damn well he was losing every second of Now, all of that may sound harsh, but to me if you are talking about a guy that some here have said "is one of the all-time greats" he needs to be held to a much higher standard than even a very good fighter would be... Mosley in no way measures up, not even close... Is he one of the 20 best fighters since 1991 (20 years) ? I'd think so, I haven't made a list but I would imagine he'd be on there somewhere, but this was a guy who was touted as quite literally Sugar Ray Robinson/Leonard New Edition and who, even now when people have been clearly shown a different picture, is still frequently called an all-timer... to me, since the reality is nowhere NEAR the hyperbole, he HAS TO BE the most overrated at least in the last two decades
Mosley came along at the right time and the DLH win made lots of fans gloss over his weaknesses. But I think you're being a little harsh towards Mosley in regards to the first Forrest fight. He was absolutely wrecked by those shots and I was surprised he was even able to continue. He was out of it and was taking a pretty good ass kicking after that. He tried to mount a bit of offense and then those bodyshots ended that. Ouch. I think that was a Camacho-Rosario moment in a way for him. He was much more gunshy after that fight and never seemed to fully regain his confidence. Add that to his one dimensional style and him beginning to lose his edge in physical skills and the cracks started to become even more apparent.
