Very touching. I'm in tears. I'm not saying that Frazier wasn't a brave fighter. Still if we're going by number of KDs, what Willard did was clearly braver. Regardless of what you say..far more difficult to rise when your opponent is standing right on top of you. Secondly Frazier didn't want to quit in Manila, this is true, but what you just shared (the quotes) are merely legend. All Frazier said was "no" and shook his head a couple times when they said they were going to stop it. Just look at the tape. It's clear. As for him not covering up against Foreman and keep on taking the licks..that was more STUPIDITY and lack of a back up plan than it was bravery. Frank Bruno used to stand there like an idiot and continue to take shots too. I guess we should add the big black brit to the list of brave fellas.
the tapes show about 15 seconds of time I'll take Benton and Willie The Worm's testimony over yours, THOMAS HAUSER Bruno wouldn't get up Seriously, I've never seen a gutsier fighter than Frazier... ever... by any measure
Holyfield was braver...just to name one off the top of my head. Holyfield would get up or come back from teh brink of KO defeat and actually try to knock the other guy out. Against Foreman Frazier got back up, but it was clear that he didn't believe he could win the fight. He just stood there getting the shit kicked out of him.
I will say though that Ali was done...he wouldn't have quit...but he was DONE. He was very happy when Joe couldn't continue. Ali was fighting on adrenaline only. Ali's bravery >>>>>>>>>>Frazier.
I can only come to the conclusion that your pathological hatred for Frazier means that you can never admit anything positive about the man The guy could literally run into a burning bulding and rescue 5 children, 3 puppies and 3 kittens while sustaining horrid third degree burns and you would say something crazy like "why didn't he put out the fire?? Come on, Joe, put out the fire, you dummy!!!... Ali and Holyfield would have put out the fire!!!"
Derrick Jefferson was the bravest. Anyone here old to enough to have seen him deck Mo Harris in the all time haymaker punch after being brutally decked himself and left for dead.... A fight never to be forgotten. Poor Derrick. Last time I saw him was at the Garden a number of years back and he was flattened in the first round or so I believe. ..this is a cool site..we all go off topic and everyone joins in...very cool..props! GS
:giggle: I'd certainly give him credit for rescuing people and pets from a burning building. The only two times that Frazier was hurt and close to being stopped, he was KTFO! I've never seen him come back from serious adversity.
If Foreman had decked Evander "The Real Deal" Holyfield in the opening round, Evander would have gotten up, pissed as hell, and would have gone to war with Foreman (as ill-advised as that would have been). He would have actually had some success and probably put George on the defensive. Such was the warrior spirit of the great man. Put it this way..no way does Foreman stop Evander in 2 rounds. Having said all of that..Vander vs Frazier would have been an all time great fight and exceedingly competitive.
Based on his not being hit. Truth of the matter is that he's 40 and pretty fresh. He doesn't get tagged cleanly, often. Louis would have needed repeated flush combinations to get him out of there. But nobody, not Lennox Lewis even, tagged the guy with repeated flush combos. Unless of course folk want to suggest that Vitali has a chin and physical resistance akin to that of Billy Conn, a man not only 80lbs lighter than Vitali, but 20-30lbs lighter than Louis. As for this notion that Vitali "pulls straight back"...he's probably got some of the best lateral movement on offer in the game right now. Seeing as you mention Sanders {again} Vitali fought off the ropes in that fight, firing shots as he did and stepping off to the side. Look how many times Sanders attacks with both hands, and how many shots he lands. It's 1, 2 at best, with Sanders getting nailed 2, 3 times in return. Bottom line is the comparison to Willard is simply Bert Sugar-Esque.
I think he was down twice. But thanks for making my point in a round-about kind of way....Frazier was rarely in an easy fight, and was always getting tagged and hurt. Ali and Foreman are forgivable. But guys like Ramos, Bonavena, Foster....these are significantly lesser fighters. Quarry was sticking it to him too. Too hittable, too game, too easy to find.
What Irish fails to mention in that post is that he picked Frazier to essentially take over after the 4th round in a fight with Tua
Who said he was a defensive wizard? Is Joe Louis 6'5" with an 84" reach? Is he a 250lb man that can stand in and push Vitali off? Can he lean in with a long, raking right hand? No. Name one 6' 199lb man who has stood in with Vitali with ANY degree of success??? Did Joe Louis have the footspeed or upper-body motion required to close the gap? Did he demonstrate an iron chin all his career? How often was he floored? Plenty of times to suggests he can be hit. Marciano is a harder fight for Vitali. Joe Loses.
I'm not hiding anything here. This is the Vitali vs Louis thread besides. Louis would beat Tua but its not easy, simply because it never was with Joe. Tua might well hurt him badly but I pick Frazier to over the worst of it within 10 minutes and be rumbling on henceforth.
Agreed, most importantly it would be hard for Louis to hit Vitali often. Against Wlad it's a different story as it wouldn't take too many good ones from Louis. Not to say it would be easy but i think the punches get there at some point.
