Everyone calling Jon Jones for dropping Lyoto Machida to the floor after rendering him unconcious, but what about Frank Mir, now 2-2 in 'breaking-opponents-arms' - what's with this? Did Mir apply too much pressure? Is Minatauro to blame for not tapping early enough, knowing he couldnt get out of the lock? When does the referee have a right to jump in and call time on such matters? And before everyone starts on me, its the not-too-dissimilar in boxing when one fighter goes on for too long with a) the referee not halting the bout or b) the corner throwing the towel in
It's up to the fighter to tap, a fighter knows what happens if you don't and if you choose to just sit there when a guys got your arm wrenched in a bad kimura, that's on you. As for Jones dropping Machida, if you're mad about that you need to watch a different sport.
Mir gave him a chance to tap. Big Nog was the one who refused to tap even though it was obvious he was screwed. He only tapped AFTER it broke.
Absolutely, Mir totally gave him a chance to tap. Nog clearly didn't want to tap, so Mir had to apply more pressure to end the fight. Nog screwed himself with his own ego. Plain and simple.
There was absolutely NOTHING wrong with the ending of either fight. Both guys should have tapped. There is no shame in NOT getting your arm broken. I honestly think Frank Mir sinking in an armbar or kimura might be the most absolute thing in MMA. When Frank got his hands locked I told my son the fight was over. He said "No way. Nog will get out of it." He wasn't going anywhere and he wasn't getting out of it. Just tap. I don't give a shit about your Brazilian pride. Nog's career is essentially over now as a result of his pride. With Machida it's a bit different. I know guys like Jarhead and Anthony can back me up on this. But sometimes with chokes, especially guillotines, you don't always know how tight they are. In the few times I've rolled around with my BJJ black belt friend, I know there have been times where I've thought "Hmmm, this isn't too bad. I can probably stay in this hold without any problems." And then suddenly you start getting tunnel visions that's closing in and you have that 'holy shit' moment and tap quickly. I'd guess that might have been the case with Machida. Given the odd angle and the way Jones was applying the choke, Lyoto might have felt OK until it was too late. Maybe not, but it's possible.
I guess that's fair enough - but I'm a little peeved when Mir goes on record as "I trained for that" - as if he was going to go for the break rather than the sub. Remember when Matt Hughes got Royce Gracie in an armbar...Gracie refused to tap - Hughes stated he knew Gracie would rather let his arm break than submit. Brazilians: not wired-up correctly. :notallthere: Hope Dana can make Mir v Cigano...in Brazil! :mj:
Yeah, but with Gracie-Hughes, Matt knew that Royce presented absolutely no threat to him. In Mir's case, he was only seconds removed from almost being stopped. He was going to end the fight with that kimura one way or another.
