what do we think of Broner?

I first watched that fight as a young teenager, when I didn't even know Duran. Even then, on first viewing, my impression of the fight was that Duran pretty much dominated it.

I haven't seen it for a few years, I'm going to rewatch it soon and see how many clear rounds Ray won.

 

Are you sure? I mean, I really imagine you looking like that, you can kind of see it, even through the blur :kidcool:

 

Duran Won 3 of the 1st 4 Rounds BIG, HURTING Leonard in Round 2...Honestly, it Even Looked like he Might Eventually STOP Leonard Early, the Way the Fight was Progressing...Nonetheless, Slowly but Surely, Leonard WORKED his Way Back INTO the Fight....

Duran STARTED Stronger & ENDED Stronger, but Leonard Put Forth an Admirable Effort in btwn...There was NO Mystery when the Final Bell Rang; Duran WON the Fight Clearly...But it wasn't a Schooling, a Beating or Anything of the Sort...



REED:hammert:

 

I reckon Neil looks like a white Winky Wright. It's the only explanation I have for Neil finding Wright exciting in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

The only exciting Winky Wright fight was against Julio Cesar Vazquez, mainly because he was floored 5 times without ever scoring a knockdown of his own, yet it was still a close fight

 

I think 9-6 or possibly 10-5 is about right... 11-4 seems a little bit wide to me... 9-6 "at best" ain't right, either, though... 9-6 is probably the truest representation of the fight

 

he got cheated out of a knockdown when he dropped vasquez legitimately with a right hook.

 

I look nothing like Winky and he is one of my favorite fighters ever.


As for this thread, this is really legendary. One, I apologized to Neil. Two, I agree with every thing Reed has written about that bloated overrated quitter, Duran:34::34:I guess if you post long enough, things happen.

 

the single most exciting moment of his career

 

I find this mind-boggling... he did the same thing over and over... jab jab jab jab... move half a foot... jab jab jab... straight left swat that isn't going to KO anyone in the top 20... jab jab jab... move... swat... jab...

the whole time with the semi-earmuffs on

people say "but he would throw 800 punches in a fight!" ... yeah 600 jabs, 200 swats ... he was a good fighter, but he bored me to tears

 

i enjoyed wrights fights with vasquez, simon, vargas, mosley 1 and 2, hernandez, taylor, dodson and a few other of his earlier fights with lesser competition. his jab and right hook were hard punches. no power in the left, i agree. as his career progressed he had hand problems with the left and didnt let it go as hard as he did when he was younger.

 

I just never found him at all entertaining

It was like watching a video game where one character does the same pain-in-the-ass trick over and over again. He was very good, just not my cup of tea

 

wright was more entertaining than that gay boxer who used to promote mayweather jr.

 

Probably because Duran had kicked the crap out of him for the majority of the fight prior, and was taunting him because he'd won the fight and was better.. Not because Duran was afraid to fight and had no other way to be competitive aside from run and pose like a queer

 

Once again, no horse in this race for me, but I feel that the "running" that Leonard did should be called just that. It seems that running and acting the moron can be interpreted as greatness when its suits the interpreter and passed off as something else, like cowardice or amateurism when it suits likewise. Leonard ran because he knew he could not beat Duran in a fight. Hearns beat Duran in a fight. I don't like to accuse any boxer of this, but Leonard was two shades removed from Dirrell in the rematch. Of course, winning is winning, and Duran did quit, and Duran was obliged to find a way to deal with the running, but still..........both men were culpable in different ways. A horrible rematch.

 

in some fights, I'd agree

 

I'm kind of with Irish on this one

While I love the comedic Duran worship by Hut, Loaded and MWS and I enjoy all three guys as posters, I can't completely absolve Duran of quitting. He did quit. There's no way around it. I think the opposite view of Leonard putting on some incredible boxing exhibition to force that result is the biggest load of nonsense in history. It was basically a 4-3 fight when Duran waved his glove and shook his head.

Did Leonard use his considerable pull as a box office star to push for some ridiculous criteria, most notably the utterly absurd 24' ring? He absolutely did. Anyone who thinks that didn't play a factor is a liar. I wonder how many fights, especially between two 147 pound men, have taken place inside a ring that enormous? Probably very few. It's not common. I think those who believe that the same tactics by Leonard would have been feasible in a more normal sized ring (like the one in Montreal) are either not being honest or are really bad at thinking critically about things.

Still, with all of that said, Duran had (as Irish pointed out) a fighter's, hell, a CHAMPION's obligation to figure out a way to overcome that bullshit and at least TRY. Annoyed by not being able to do exactly what he wanted, he quit. It's a moment that I would imagine has dominated his thoughts over the years, a moment he wishes he could take back. Still, it happened. He quit in a competitive fight, and in doing so, tarnished his legacy. To me, if Duran retires in 1979, he's one of the two best lightweights of all time and he is a legendary fighter. The other things he accomplished certainly add to his reputation, but with them come things that detract from it and distort the bigger picture. Still, he did that one to himself. You can forgive losing to Thomas Hearns the way he did. He was an older fighter in a horrible style matchup. You could forgive him being lazy and unmotivated and losing a 10 rounder to Kirkland Laing. Certainly, only a sadist is going to count his final ten years as a chubby old man against him. The Leonard rematch will always be the go-to zinger for anyone who dislikes Duran or sees him as overrated. They will always be able to hold that one against him. He deserves the criticism. It doesn't alter his cemented, unshakable legacy at 135 (and no, losing a ten round fight to a great lightweight like DeJesus is not good ammunition. It's a foolish point to bring up, frankly) but it is a pockmark on his later accomplishments. The DEGREE to which one holds it against him is where the debate truly lies. Personally, I think he did enough to prove he was an ATG fighter and while that loss is a shameful one, it doesn't and can not objectively define the man.

 

You've largely hit the nail on the head. Duran quit out of spite. He didn't quit because things were going badly. He quit because things were not going perfectly for him. There is a difference.

Thats the first side of the coin. The second side of the coin is the massive ring for two men neither of which were known as runners or movers and had already themselves engaged in a 1-point, 15 round fight some months previously. The impression that Leonard tamed the beast is complete nonsense. Its a Sugarism, A Coselloquoy.

Duran quit in the rematch but this was no Ali vs Liston quit-job. This was a guy who was given a fork, told to pick up some peas, and quit once he found it to be a hard, but not impossible, job.

Leonard is also a quitter- he quit being a fighter once he found he could be out-fought, and became a face-puller and a runner and had the connections and the popularity to pass it off as genius. It wasn't. And the irony of it all is that Duran wasn't Nigel Benn in the sense that lots of people could out-box the guy but very few people could out-fight him. He would go on to be outfought and may have been outfought before at that. He only went back to the fighting end of things when Dundee got in his ear and told him he was blowing it. He thought he could outbox Tommy and he was wrong.

Being fair to both men, neither of them comes out of it with too much credit, and the portrayal of Duran as some sort of feral bully that was tamed by the magnificent Leonard is as ridiculous as the imagery we are so often treated to of Duran as this mustachioed Latin killer with no fear or compassion.

I have no beef with Leonard and he would have beaten Oscar and Tito for fun, but he was not a saint either, and did benefit from a very sympathetic press.

 

Another one you could throw in was Hagler. Hagler claimed to have retired because he was sick of bad decisions. Hagler really retired because he had gotten old and he knew it, and he knew Runner Ray would give him a worse going over if they rematched.

 

Leonard made Duran his bitch.

Forever.

 

Nah, Duran made Leonard his bitch, which is why Leonard insisted on a clown ring, as he knew he stood no chance in a normal boxing match.

 

Road Ray. MEEP MEEP!!

 

When the neighborhood bully kicked your ass, did mommy tell you that you actually won because you made him cross the street to get to you?

 

I'm guessing you fought the neighborhood bully by running for your life like a little girl, only pausing to make faces at him every once in a while to make yourself feel brave. Eventually he got bored and lost interest in trying to make you stop being a gaywad and just went home. You proclaimed victory and loudly crowed about having vanquished him.

 

:: :bears:

 

Leonard never touched him in the rematch. Well thought out. But, hey, you got some emoticons out of it.

 

Yep...He MINDFUCKED Duran, Plain & Simple...



REED:hammert:

 

I don't see why it's an issue. Duran agreed to the terms. Probably took more money in exchange for the larger ring.

Same can be said of hagler. He took $1 million more to cut the distance from 15 to 12 rounds.

Can't bitch about what you've agreed to.

 

Yep...Leonard Merely RAN the ENTIRE Fight...Didn't Even Land a SINGLE Punch of Consequence, the Whole Time...



REED:dancingBaby:

 

No, wait, you guys are right. He fought bravely and showed a lot of heart and skill, he didn't run at all. He only wanted a football field sized ring because he was suffering from severe temporary claustrophobia.

 

More Importantly is the Point that NO Duran Fan Can Dispute;the FACT that Duran had the Leverage, After WINNING the 1st Fight...

So if, If, IF Duran Really "WASN'T Prepared" for the Immediate RE, Simply POSTPONE the Fucking Fight...If Duran was "Partying" & "Struggling to Make Weight", Simply Concoct an "INJURY" of Some Sort, to Buy More Time...Hurt Hand, Cut Eye, Whatever...

& If the "Clown Ring" Really WAS a Hindrance, Simply Say "I'm NOT Fighting in that Shit"...2 B Clear, Leonard WAS NOT in a Position to Dictate Terms to Roberto Duran, Coming Off a Loss, Rematch Clause Be Damned...This WASN'T the Same Leonard who RAPED Marvin Hagler @ the Negotiating Table...

What's REALLY Funny is, Duran Lovers ALWAYS Play the "Natural Lightweight" Card, THEN Turn Around & Say he was 'Struggling to Make Weight" @ 147...



REED:shit: