for example, how has carl froch managed to be so successful at such a relatively high level? when i first saw him fight his caveman style and speed made him look ridiculous, it looked like a typical case of the british media hyping another local no-hoper who'd get embarrassed as soon as he took on any world-level competition. and yet he's kept on winning or putting in good showings against a succession of relatively respectable opponents. is it just the power, chin, and absence of higher cognitive functions (rendering him incapable of experiencing fear) that somehow counterbalance his poor style and slowness?
Just his passion and belief. He's better than what most give him credit for. His resume speaks for itself.
He has more skills than given credit for, and a good ring IQ. He's just not very talented compared to most of his peers. He's a good fighter. Maybe not a pound 4 pounder but a solid guy who knows how to win. He was always underrated, similar IMO to how Danny Garcia is underrated .
Froch is a weird dude and a weird fighter, but very good. He's far better than I initially thought and keeps proving me wrong, fair play to the guy.
First, boxing is a blood sport and the essence of any blood sport is the ability to take it as equally as you can dish it out, if not better. That's what it comes down to in a large part and Froch ticks that box. Once you take will and guts and marry it to some decent physical attributes like height, reach, strength or power, you can begin to compete ably. Marciano is the best example. Solid physical fundamentals, particularly power and stamina, wedded, and this is most important, to a style which extracted the maximum from your talents while offering the opponent very little. Throw in some very good but ultimately flawed competition {Johnson was a loser most of his career and was old, Dirrell did not have the first requirement of being able to take it, or of wanting to be there, Abraham was just very limited and lacked versatility, Kessler is a bit rudimentary} and you can now begin to compete and win at that. think Steve Collins would expose Froch, as wouild Nunn, Toney, Kalamby, Eubank, Watson, Calzaghe etc. It helps he is fighting talented but limited dudes. And has, at that, lost to one of them. Bear in mind that Sven Ottke gave Johnson the run around and Groves soundly outpointed a not-much-older-version of the same fighter, Boxing like most sports is a very simple pursuit, complicated by humans. As Anton Chigurh says, you pick the one right tool. That's what Froch does. He picks the one right tool. He doesn't have speed, so he doesn't try to use it. What speed he does have, he marries to his other fundamentals. His speed is merely along for the ride. His power is merely along for the ride, riding as they are on a crest of preparedness, application, fitness, balls and a well drilled game-plan.
Take your average hedgehog. Last time you saw him try to outrun a dog? Never happened. If all you can do is curl up into a ball and present a thorny obstacle, then that is what you do. Now, boxers, unlike the hog, can evolve a little. The gym is their testing centre, their firing range. Its where they go to put new ides, new wrinkles, into practice, and see what happens. Even last night, Froch showed some slight signs of evolution, A little bit faster starting, and more jabs. Of course, that lasted for all of three rounds before Kessler was back into it, but Froch carried those three rounds and they were enough to win him the fight. That's evolution of a sort. Froch tried it for as long as it was good, and got something out of it.
THIS... Froch ISN'T Great in Any Regard, but he ISN'T Bad in Any Regard Either...Froch ISN'T "Fast", Per Se, but he's Quick Enough...He's Not an ELITE Level Puncher, but his Pop is MORE than Respectable (& he's BRAVE Enough to Punch in COMBINATION, as Opposed to Potshotting)...Certainly NOT the Most Skilled, yet he Can OUTJAB a Guy like Kessler (who has a Borderline GREAT Jab)... When you Mix that w/TOUGHNESS, DETERMINATION, SUPREME CONFIDENCE & UNORTHODOXY, you Have a Guy Who Seems to OVERachieve... Though they Fight NATHAN Alike, Danny Garcia is an APT Comparison... REED:hammert:
:: the irony could not be more biting :: ----->http://m.boxingnewsonline.net/bnactive/technique/carl-froch-on-the-perfect-uppercut
Putting Frochs speed in perspective.....Vitali had faster hands in 1999 than Froch does now. "and on the final day, God made Frochs uppercut, and he saw that it was shit, and he said..."Carl, don't ever throw that fucking thing lest thee shame me"...but Froch was a disobedient son, and waged war with his bandy right hand, and so God cast him down with the Super Sixers and say "WOE!!! Let thee be embarrassed and known as a the fighting farmer" and God increased his woes with a jezebel who bore a fake bosom. And God sent forth his other Son, Andrew, and the Apostle Contius, and they vexed the farmer with a swarm of locusts, and Froch was forced to find succour with Lucas the Corinthian. And these deeds were chronicled by James The Scot, who vexed many with his lamentations and deceptive counting which bore no resemblance to the countings of others, so let he who hat understanding know the true number, for it is a human number, 118-110, 118-110, 118-110"
There's always been the oddballs like Froch who look terrible, don't seem to have much talent, yet somehow they have good careers because they make it work
Two things IMO: 1) he has really long arms and he's freakishly strong. 2) To me Froch is basically a really agricultural version of an old school fighter - he stands off line (keeps his opponent's lead foot lined up with his rather than standing central until he's ready to engage), and the lower left hand means he threatens from beneath with the left & over with the right. Basically exactly what Hopkins does and it has the same effect - it deters 'modern style' opponents from attacking and usually gives him a big advantage in landing his lead hand because his jab is in line with his opponents napper (again, when the other guy is a modern, 'down the middle' guy like Kessler, Abraham, etc) but the converse isn't true http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81non05aKX4
Vitali is the improved version, left hand out of sight, range established via height and reach, jab comes up from the hip, hook behind it. Watch Froch and Vitali, both lead off with the hook a lot, and its not Roy Jones style, it's like a guy throwing a horseshoe, sort of like a guy reaching up quickly to get something off a shelf. Both guys have a great radar, Froch is easy to hit, easier than Vitali because he's not as good or as relatively tall, but he oddly enough never gets nailed flush so often that it is a problem. His hardest fight came against a past-his-best Taylor because Taylor was freakish in his own name and had a proper right hand to go with it. It's worth pointing out, relative to your point about the similarity with Hopkins, that it was Taylor who gave Hopkins no end of problems relative to what guys like Wright or Pavlik could muster.
And he deserves every credit for that. He has balls of steel, solid chin and he is one determined mofo.
It may well have been, but of all the fights he has ever won, it was probably his hardest fight. I think the first Kessler fight was his hardest, not even Ward beat him up like that, Carl was hurt a lot in that fight to the body....but of all the fights he won, that was his hardest. I think he made the Pascal fight harder on himself than he had to, something to do with a recent death of a friend making him reckless.
Froch has a sideline business in renovating houses, the sort of thing you see on BBC daytime TV, where a guy buys a place for £40,000, renovates it and sells it for £55,000 making a smallish profit. The idea here is that he is kept away from distractions and nonsense, it allows him to stay sane and gives him perspective away from boxing. Hatton never had that. I guess there is only so much carpet you can lay before you get laid out like one yourself. Johnny Tapia was the same, no perspective, downtime killed him.
Carlos Monzon, to a Lesser Degree...As GREAT as he Admittedly was, it DIDN'T Jump Out @ You... REED:hammert:
I disagree about Monzon. He was very meat and potatoes, without obvious, flashy talent - but he was very fundamentally correct and textbook, the opposite of Frock in many ways. Monzon wasn't an oddball, but Frock absolutely is.
They FOUGHT Entirely Different, but like Froch, Monzon wasn't Great OR Poor in Any Particular Area...Also like Froch, Monzon SEEMED Easier to Beat than he Actually Was, in REED's Opinion... REED:hammert:
Gene Fullmer is one who comes to mind... very ugly style, whether he was brawling or boxing, but it worked well for him... well enough to be at the top of an exceedingly deep division... I'd wager that every single guy he defended successfully against was more talented and well-schooled than he Bazooka Limon was right in the thick of the 130 pound division when it had quite a few good fighters in it and his was an odd style as well, he pushed his jab, threw wide, looping shots, moved his head straight back from long punches
I agree... I can't recall where I read or heard this but someone noted "Monzon never seemed to impress his opponents, but he always seemed to beat them"
