Holmes vs Ali, primes

Must have been done a hundred times but what the hell. Most probably have a strong opinion on this since both are very well-known fighters, but a couple of pointers to consider

First of all, I try to watch the realistic picture of both fighters. Not the highlight reel of Ali of the Williams fight, but not the highlight reel of Holmes either, since neither is the actual truth.

Ali is clearly the greater of the fighters and his resume is better. Holmes, IMO, has gone from underrated to overrated. He is undeniably great, but too much is made of his numbers (same can be said of Wlad too). He had shitload of defenses, but too many of those opponents were raw, and many of them were too close, had Holmes been AS GOOD AS we often remember him (I repeat, he still is a great fighter). Just the same way, Ali did lose rounds in his prime, even though his highlight reel shuldn't have

That being said, Holmes MIGHT have had just the weapons to defeat Ali or come very close of doing it. He had the movement to somehow keep up with Ali, his jab and reach would DEFINITELY have been a problem for Ali and he was better on the inside.

Two interesting points: Ali's psychological games were well-known, but I think prime Holmes was one guy who could have been un-effected by it. Even though he ducked some of his best contenders late in his reign, whenever he was inside the ring he seemed to trust himself completely and wouldn't be frustrated. He was a legit bad-ass.

Prime Holmes knew much of Ali's tricks on the ropes and otherwise. I know it is not totally fair to compare fighters of different eras like this, but the actual prime Holmes did have this knowledge. That might be the edge that tips the scale.

IMO a very close fight either way and I change my pick depending on the day. I really don't know.


Make a pick, and also explain what is the DEFINING attribute, IYO.

 

holmes was technically more sound. i might be in the minority, but i think holmes wins a close decision.

 

Ali wins. His speed is the big difference maker between them. Awkward fight, close fight, but Ali wins.

 

Stylewise it's a difficult night for both guys.

I also think Ali's speed is the key difference and he gets the decision. It would probably be a pretty dreadful fight though. A chess match with the same moves being repeated over and over.

 

Ali wins a 9-6 or 10-5 type UD.

 

Do you see it being mainly because of Ali's speed, footwork or work rate?

 

Body punching.

 

:laugh11:

 

::

Ali UD, to fast to nestle quik

 

Ali, no doubt about it

Holmes was a poor man's Ali

Holmes was great BECAUSE of Ali..

Ali was faster, and just tough as shit

 

Ali a tad too quick in a chess match

 

Depends on Who ESTABLISHES their Jab 1st...

If it's Ali, he Beats Holmes by a WIDE UD...If it's Holmes, REED Thinks Ali is Still DYNAMIC Enough to Befuddle Holmes w/COUNTERS, Superior HANDSPEED & MOVEMENT, En Route to a CLOSER UD...

As TACTICAL as Any Fight You'll Ever See, but NOT Terribly Exciting...





REED:hammert:

 

I think Ali wins a comfortable decision.

Yes Larry sparred with Ali on his way up, but Ali in 71-75 when they sparred regularly didn't have the legs he had in the 60's. Holmes himself said in the early days Ali got the better of him and toward the end of his time in camp with Ali it was close to even.

Both at their best, Ali's got too much speed and movement for Larry. As great as Larry's jab was, Ali in the 60's would probably be able to slip and counter in.

As most have said, would have been a boring fight but I'd still put money on Ali landing more combinations and staying out of the way long enough to win a comfortable decision.

 

if holmes can get atop of a limousine i feel as though he'll gain an upper hand

 

::

 

:bears:

 

Ali by decision in a competitive fight, but one where there is no doubt who is the winner at the final bell.

 

Ali UD, competitive but not close

 

::

 

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5zlQqSCzRrA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

What was considered Ali's prime?
Mid-60s speed-merchant or Mid-70s piece-of-rock?

 

Pre-Exile was CLEARLY Ali's PRIME...





REED:mj:

 

Ali was definitely a stronger, sturdier man circa 1967 than he was just two or three years earlier... he was reaching his zenith

When he came back, he was still a great, great fighter but he had to change things up a bit because he couldn't dance all night, only in spurts

 

homes 10/10 he has alis number

 

homes to 80s to jab to limousine

 

how do you see homes vs dog jones or bum beribck playeen owt, Qwerty?



readopcorn:

 

Not if he fought Ali in a lose ropes ring

 

Qwerty Never Answered, so REED'll Ask You Directly...

Would You have BEATEN homes and bum beribck?



opcorn:

 

It's not exactly the craziest prediction of all time.

Ali could eat guys like Liston, and Foreman for lunch. But stylewise, Holmes would be tougher for him.