How would he be the best fighter Pacquiao faced above 130, when Pacquiao obliterated the guy who forced Tszyu to quit, in 2 rounds? Hatton was clearly better than Tszyu, as their fight proved, and Cotto is much better than Tszyu too.
Yeah like I said, they are just 2 different levels of fighter. Tszyu was an average world champ, Pacquiao is one of the best fighters of all time, and arguably the greatest fighter of the modern era.
Pacquaio is an all time great 122-130 pounder, I'd agree He's a cherry picker above those weights... a really good cherry picker, but a cherry picker nonetheless and it's a fucking awful era... so awful that Miguel Cotto gets accused of being a truly great fighter... Most of Pac's biggest scalps during his catchweight adventure were Mayweather leftovers and yet it's only Floyd Mayweather that gets shit from the fans because he's a big mouthed flashy Bleck and Pacquaio only learned English in the last 10 years or whatever and is a little, smiley Asian fellow... oh and he's sooooooo tiny, he's just a tiny little flyweight on PEDs ... he should get double the credit for every W on his record because he's just the size of a needle and the weight of a Zephyr... widdle, tiny packeywow... It's so amazing the way he can beat up used up older larger fighters who also have to lose a few extra pounds for the first time in a decade or more because they can't turn down all that money.... Pacquaio is worse than Mayweather with that bullshit and nobody says shit You think a 30 year old Tszyu couldn't beat the DLH, Mosley, Margarito, etc. that Pacquaio beat? Of course he could and he would have beat Cotto's fragile ass, too Point is, this is a fucking fight... I don't rate Tszyu as some fucking legend at 140... I think Pryor would overwhelm him, I think Locche would frustrate the fuck out of him... I love Cervantes reach and his jab against him... Benitez would bamboozle him, etc.... But the dude was a good fighter... I'd pick all of those chaps over Pacquiao as well
That fight proved that a young guy with a mauling, anti-boxing style fighting in his hometown with friendly officiating can tire out a 35 year old man and make him say "fuck it" in a very close fight Tszyu was this close on those counter right hands... As a younger man, I have no doubt he gets them home and Ricky has a much different night...
Tszyu couldn't even beat Hatton, and you think he'd beat the WW Cotto that Pacquiao beat? No way, Cotto would bash him up. I would also pick Mosley and Plasterito to beat Tszyu. They are too big and too tough for Tszyu to beat. If he can't hurt you or KO you, he folds. He doesn't like it when his opponents take what he can dish out, and he doesn't like pressure. The only one he'd have a chance against is weight drained Oscar. I know you hold Floyd in very high regards cdogg, well you speak of Floyd's leftovers and cherry picking etc, Floyd was recently given a legimitately tough fight by one of Pacquiao's leftovers, none other than modern day legend Miguel Cotto. That fight was close, Miggles did a poor man's Duran impression and it worked fucking well against Floyd. And lest we not forget, Cotto is the current lineal middleweight champion. You speak of him as some scrub, but realistically he has been one of the 10 best fighters in the world for a long time. Pacman walked through Cotto like he was a garbageman. You can pick anyone's CV apart, if you really wanted to you could pick apart the Fab 4's resumés and act like they're no big deal. For whatever reason, Pacquiao's epic run doesn't impress you. But as someone who's been a boxing fan since a kid, and used to REALLY dislike Pacquiao and thought Morales and Barrera would crush him - Pacquiao's post 130 run is one of the most impressive feats I've ever seen in boxing. Partly the manner in which he was destroying significantly bigger men. He wasn't outslicking them and winning razor thin, controversial decisions, he was beating the living shit out of them. My opinion is, denegrating it and picking it apart is kind of nonsensical because if it was as simple as picking the right opponents and taking some PEDs, other people would be doing it, and the fact is, no one else has done it to the extent Pacquiao has, not even close.
I think Pac gets him out mid to late rounds. Tszyu early on would be competitive and he could hurt Pac with that right hand. But I think Manny's speed of both hand and foot plus his own punching power would be too much in the end.
How was he anything but that? His best win is Judah ffs, and he got slapped around by Hatton and Cool Vince :: It's not even an insult. It's acknowledging he is a solid world class fighter, but nothing more than that, not the elite, legendary god half of you make him out to be.
Mex is about as objective when it comes to Tszyu as Noble is when it comes to Rigondeaux :: (or me when it comes to Duran)
How the fuck is pacquiao a cherry picker? That's bullshit. His catch weight crap should count against him, but cherry picker? That's ridiculous.
140 isn't one of the original divisions, you'd be hard pressed to come up with 10 140 lbers who belong on an ATG list ahead of Tszyu.. Pryor, Benitez, Cervantes, Chavez, Floyd, Locche.. DLH? Hatton? And some of those guys weren't really 140 lbers for appreciable portions of their career - DLH had what, 1-2 fights there? Floyd beat a few stiffs, and Chavez's best days were at 135.
Who are the leftovers he fought. Hatton and Mosley (don't say De la Hoya and Marquez, as those fight had nothing to do with PBF) ??? And even the Hatton fight is arguable, since he fought him at 140, where Hatton was still the recognised champ. So fighting 2 guys that Floyd previously fought is enough to deem that is resusme consist mostly of floyd leftover You're embarassing yourself
Why wouldn't you say DLH... DLH was completely shot when he fought Pacquaio (not that this means anything to you, as you are the dullard who thought Wilfred Benitez and Pipino Cuevas weren't shot at 27 simply because they were 27) I never said anything about marquez... That rivalry was established long before DLH was completely gone when Pacquaio fought him... He was still semi-useful when Floyd decisioned him... People were saying Mosley was old and worn out before the Mayweather fight yet somehow two years later Pacquaio beats him and those same people call it a big win... It's nonsense... The double standard is ridiculous The same guys who call Mayweather a cherry picker and say he's gaming the system cream in their jeans when Pacquaio goes and does the same exact thing usually well after Mayweather already did Pacquaio sweats a guy down a few pounds and it's like somebody else is doing it... Mayweather does it and he's the devil himself... The drooling hypocrisy of it is infuriating...
I've never heard anybody say the Mosley win was a big one for Pacquiao. Not one person. It was rightly ridiculed when it was made. The guy had just drawn with Sergio Mora FFS
That's really the only example I can think of which fits your criteria. Either way it was derided universally on message boards and rightly so.
Never said that Benitez wasn't shot at 27, Sad that you have to invent stuff to try to make a point. Claiming that Pacquio cherry picked and giving DLH as an example, is a terrible argument, since ,if you didn't have the memory of a goldfish, you would know that it was in fact DLH who cherry picked Pacquiao as an opponent. At the time, everybody and their mother were criticizing DLH for picking on a way smaller, name, in order to look impressive and build a rematch with PBF. Using it as an example of Pacquiao gaming the system makes you either an imbecile or intellectually dishonest. BTW i wouldnt say that DLH was shot whem he fought Pacman, he clearly was on the way down, and a far cry form his peak, but he looked okay against Forbes, and PBF in his two previous fights. Claiming that he was desahydrated and weak because of the weight cut is a much better way to discredit Pacquio win over him, since it might have had an impact.
I netted some decent cashish betting on Pacquiao against De La Hoya, people were expecting him to get flattened.
DLH was a big betting favourite to beat Manny. I hate to agree with JoM but it was indeed the tranny who was being criticised for that fight beforehand. Most people thought it would be a massacre. MTF
Nice. I thought Oscar was simply too big and it was pretty shameful that he wanted Pacquiao. He didn't beat Floyd so he just went for the next best (smaller) P4P opponent. I don't think anybody figured Oscar would look that dreadful, even among those who picked Manny. I guess in hindsight seeing Forbes last the distance wasn't a great sign for De La Hoya. He still won easily and it was a routine exercise rather than a big fight though. The weight obviously had an effect but I'm guessing there was a bit more going on.
Yeah obviously the weight hurt Oscar but it was such a crazy step up in weight at the time for Manny that nobody saw a beating like that coming. Funny thing is, I went to NYC for Calzaghe-Jones and brought my mate back a programme. On the back was an ad for DLH-Pacquiao, I said to my mate at the time "if Manny wins this, then Floyd-Pac will be THE biggest fight in boxing". I was right, I just didn't expect to still be waiting for it ::
Indeed Oscar was the cherry picker in that instance, and I thought he should be ashamed of himself, and that Pacquiao was silly to take the fight instead of staying at 135. I remember thinking it was basically a foregone conclusion that Oscar would flatten the little man, weight drained or not. Clogg is my boy and all, but he is pretty much a Pacquiao hater.
If odh had won that fight, taken pacquiao off the table as a viable challenge to pbf, the balance of power would've swung heavily in favor of G and away from top rank. Afterall, top rank ' s power, even with pacquiao having beaten odh, was so thin it found it necessary to rob their own fighter (against bradley) so as to fabricate some amount of competitiveness and rivalry among their thin list of names at 140.
