Roberto Duran vs Floyd Mayweather at 135, 147 and 154...BUT with one important caveat....

I don't even think Montreal was Duran's best welterweight performance.

The Palamino fight was at welter, and arguably his best performance period.

Between the two, they absolutely obliterate any of Floyd's welter performances, which to be honest, aren't really that impressive.

 

No, again, im saying you take all available evidence across all available fights and weight it appropriately. It's YOU sticking fingers in ears and insisting we ignore shit in order to simplify reality to your liking, not me.

 

How do you rate performances? Excitement, ease of victory, ability to adapt? The thing that's the most underrated about Floyd, and what proves his greatness above all else, is his ability to adapt mid fight to a situation that is "uncomfortable" for him. That ability puts him in a very exclusive club. Even Duran isn't in that club.

Against Judah, Floyd faced a guy that was faster than him, AND more powerful, AND a southpaw. Floyd lost the first 2 rounds and was unofficially dropped. What did he do? He adjusted. He stopped the shoulder roll and stalked Judah behind a conventional guard and threw right hand leads and proceeded to fuck up the platinum grill.

Against Hatton, although Floyd was winning...Hatton's style made it uncomfortable for him. Floyd started to time him as he came in and proceeded to rearrange his face.

Against Mosley, Floyd turned stalker...and counterpunched him from an advancing strategy....causing Shane to retreat and be scared of throwing.

When things weren't going Duran's way....he lost.

Secondly, Ali's performance against Foreman was far more impressive than Norton's was against Foreman....in fact Ali's early 70s performances were better as a whole than Norton's...but did that really matter when they met head to head?

 

Floyd didn't really "fuck up" Judah. Which says a lot... cause it's Zab fuckin Judah. Leonard or Duran woulda showed Floyd how to REALLY handle Judah.

Hatton is Floyd's best welterweight performance, and even so, the fact that Hatton gave him early difficulty speaks volumes to how he'd fare against Duran. And, is Floyd beating Hatton really that impressive? Hatton had ONE previous fight at 147 before Floyd.... a fight which everybody and their mother knows Louie Collazo deserved to win.

ONLY YOU put any weight on Floyd's win over Mosley. Shane had TWO FEET in the grave.

Your Floyd dick riding knows no limits.

 

Hagler beating Duran should have no weight either based on your logic...Hagler losing to Leonard should be mega embarrassing. in both cases it was the other guy's first time at that weight.

Also "Hatton is Floyd's best welterweight performance, and even so, the fact that Hatton gave him early difficulty speaks volumes to how he'd fare against Duran."

Pre Ali-Foreman a fool like you would have said: ".....the fact that Norton gave Ali difficulty speaks volumes to how he'd fare against Foreman." Kid....boxing isn't a simple matter of "this guy is greater than this guy and because this guy struggled with this this then this guy will beat him". You're a cunt if you still think in that simplistic manner.

btw is "Zab Fucking Judah" really any worse that Kirkland Laing? You think Floyd would have struggled with Laing? Think Floyd would have been outclassed by benitez?

We can play these games all night mr xplosive but I don't have the luxury of your presumptions. Mr Xplosive, we have rules that are not open to interpretation, personal intuition, gut feelings, hairs on the back of your neck, little devils or angels sitting on your shoulder. We're all very well aware of what our orders are and what those orders mean. They come down from our Commander in Chief. They contain no ambiguity......

 

At 154, I think Benitez would beat Floyd clear as day.

 

I don't. Imo PBF is a better fighter than Benitez, even at 154.

 

154 was Benitez's best weight. He looked truly filled out and comfortable there.

Benitez poses a lot of style problems for Floyd and quite frankly I feel he was sharper/quicker than Floyd at junior middle.

It's not as if Benitez couldn't have duplicated Floyd's performances.

Will woulda beaten the dog shit outta Crapnelo.

 

Yeah but we don't know and never will. I remember you thinking Lacy was going to whip Calzaghe. You also thought matthyssee was going to whip Garcia. Neither fight turned out how you thought it would go. So you can't make a sweeping statement that Benitez would have whipped Canelo. How the fuck do you know? If that is your opinion, fine, but don't use your opinion on the outcome of a mythical fight against a common opponent as a basis for a prediction on a fight with another fighter. That's just hypothetical squared !! Lol

 

Mayweather is still underrated. This guy's skills are "dread, truly dread" (king Willy voice)

 

Lmfaooooo @ Floyd underrated

 

Duran via UD. It's not a one sided massacre, but I think Duran's unpredictable mix of offense and defense are the keys to unlocking the Mayweather puzzle.

Castillo did show a little bit of that in both fights, and I still believe he won that first fight in a very close affair.

Nonetheless, it would be a very competitive affair.

 

Underrated by those who claim to be experts.

 

Floyd is rated correctly by people who KNOW boxing... which we all know isn't you.

Casual fans who know fuck all about boxing consider him the greatest fighter ever... and those people far outweigh knowledgeable fans.

So excuse me, if us rationale/hardcore fans realize that he's overrated.... not underrated.

The narrative on Floyd COMPLETELY changed when he became a crossover star after the Oscar fight. Prior to being a crossover star, there was NOOOO ONE who considered Floyd in the same league as the Leonard's, Duran's, Whitaker's, Jones', ect... And it's not as if he IMPROVED with age... he just became the face of boxing, and the only name casual fans and the mass media knew.... so naturally he became criminally overrated and remains so to this day.

 

Palomino would have beaten every WW opponent Floyd has faced.

 

Sly doesn't know who Palomino is. He probably thinks he was on the level of Baldomir.

 

I had considered him in that league the moment he dismantled the previously undefeated Corrales with ease. Why he is not in their league...oh mr expert?

 

Max Kellerman once made the point that I completely agree with.... Floyd's longevity is far more impressive than his prime. He's managed to be great for a very long time. Not saying he did NOT have an impressive prime.... because he did. But I've never considered his prime on the same level of Leonard, Duran, Jones, Whitaker, just to name off 4.

Those four guys, at the peak of their powers, were plain and simple better than any version of Mayweather. Floyd has them beat in longevity... but not prime.

Ali is another example of a guy who Floyd has beat in longevity... but prime-for-prime Ali was better.

 

I think floyd's 'prime' probably gets downgraded too much for the first castillo fight; a) I thought he clearly pulled it out b) castillo was a very good lightweight c) he had serious hand problems that night

 

No. It's more than that. I just don't think his prime was AS GOOD as the guys I mentioned. Is there a HUGE disparity? No. But when I watch a prime Jones, or a prime Duran, or a prime Whitaker, I come away just a bit more impressed than watching a prime Floyd.

 

Put away the Floyd haterade for a second and consider just these 3 fights:

Vs Corrales
Vs Ndou
Vs Gatti

Objectively...the skills on display in those fights were as good as anything displayed by anyone in history. They were faultless executions of his craft. I mean how many fighters in history have you seen leave fights without even a scratch? Floyd must of been marked up in no more than 4 of his 49 fights. Y'all still don't seem to appreciate how good this fella was.

 

I don't hate Floyd. Well, not Floyd the fighter. Floyd the human is a phony piece of shit. Floyd the fighter is an all time great. But I have to call you out on your bullshit of blindly nut riding him, and constantly trying to diminish other greats to prop his overrated ass up.

 

You cannot separate longevity at the top from prime ability. You just can't do it. The reason Floyd was able to win for so long is the following:

1. he hardly took any punishment (he defensive skills)
2. He was that much better than his peers that even when his natural abilities eroded with age...he was still head and shoulders above the competition
3. he was able to beat any style that was thrown at him

People try to pretend that Floyd fought no one...but surely we all realize that this is ridiculous. A man doesn't have 49 fights through 5 weight classes and 2 decades, and championship level fights at each of those weights...without fighting his fair share of tests. I mean just consider this list below. If he wasn't a great at least one of these guys would have beaten him:

De La Hoya
Canelo
Cotto
Hatton
Corrales
Castillo
Pacquiao

If history has taught us anything...it is that any fighter that has faced that many top names from their era, he has lost to at least one of them.

 

I don't diminish anyone. I'm just saying that he's on that level and y'all need to admit it.

 

We never need to admit that because he never made us. He could have if he'd fought pac in 2010 like all the guys you want to compare him to would have, but he fucked it and he's left the extent of his greatness an eternally open question. As I said in the next thread, the biggest offensive threat he ever faced was a trigger-slowed 38 year old mosley.

 

No. Corrales was a much bigger offensive threat than this wersion of Mosley

 

Bullshit, Mr Han man!

Cotto, Corrales, Canelo, Pacquiao, De La Hoya were all bigger offensive threats than a 38 year old Mosley.

Exactly what is your criteria for ranking offensive threats?

 

I'm tired of this shit. Tired. Tired. Tired. Tired. Tired!

1. You can't blame the fight not happening on Mayweather alone. What about Pacquiao? What about Arum.
2. Not as much politics and money in the sport in Leonard's day. No PPV, Cable and all that shit in the way. Multiple organizations etc. Different climate.
3. Only ONE time did Leonard have to face a guy that was as big a star as himself (duran, bentiez and hearns were NOT as big crossover stars as Leonard) and that was Hagler. As guess what...Hagler was so desperate to fight Ray for a big payday that he sacrificed 15 rounds and all kinds other things demanded by Ray in order to make the fight. Ray wasn't fighting without all of those stipulations.


Also, Floyd vs Pacquiao was a unique situation: Both guys were crossover megastars. Both had options. Both demanded that they get things all their own way. That was unprecedented.

You can't compare these things bra.

 

If floyd wanted to make the fight it gets made. Period. Instead floyd complained of menstral cramps and ran to the bathroom.

 

The only one with the slightest claim to being as big a knock out threat (at welterweight or above, in relevance to this thread) is de la hoya.