Roberto Duran vs Floyd Mayweather at 135, 147 and 154...BUT with one important caveat....

So now we're creating a smaller box for ourselves....only welterweight and above offensive fighters.

Fine..I'll play your game.

So.....Duran's proven chin for that decade of his at lightweight is irrelevant when evaluating his ability to take a punch at 147lbs and above then? Cool

So, Mosley...when he was quite a few years younger than when he fought Floyd...couldn't put a dent in Cotto...But Pacquiao bounced the Cotto up and down off the canvas...but Shane was a bigger offensive threat than Pacquiao. Oh...yes...sorry...Pacquiao was OLD by the time he fought Mayweather so different. But wait...wasn't Mosley also old when he fought Mayweather...OLDER in fact that Pacquiao when Pacquiao fought Mayweather? Hmmm... Yet...Shane was a greater offensive threat than Pacquiao. Cool logic my friend.

Canelo....Prime age, naturally bigger and with a high KO percentage...but less offensive threat than 38 year old Mosley. Again...Cool logic my friend. Some abstract "Picasso" type logic there. You're a maverick.

De La Hoya with only a "slight" claim even though he fucked up a much younger Mayorga far earlier and far worse than Shane did? Cool logic my friend.

 

You're hard work today. But yes as usual my logic is pretty cool. Agree to disagree.

 

I don't see logic on this topic from you my friend. I just see unadulterated bias. As you said....agree to disagree.

On one hand you say Shane was too old to pull the trigger...but on the other you claim that he was the greatest offensive threat that Floyd ever faced. As much as you say so....you just can't have it both ways. Even in his PRIME this great offensive Shane Mosley couldn't put a dent into Forrest in two tries. He did hurt Diaz, Wise, Taylor and Stone though.....four guys that were not exactly known for having adamantium jaws.

 

I'm saying a 'trigger slowed' shane was probably still the biggest KO threat floyd ever faced. Take that as a measure of how untested I regard floyd's steel at the weight we're matching him here.

Pacquiao was 5 years removed from coming close to KOing anyone and in fact never once did at the 147 limit

 

Cotto and De La Hoya went the distance with Pacquiao did they?

 

Also say what you want about Zab Judah...one thing that guy could do was punch. I recall him joking Cory Spinks when the much larger Jermaine Taylor couldn't do it at middleweight.

Plus I just don't agree with you that his proven punch taking abilities at lightweight etc are irrelevant.

 

Judah had pop, but you damn sure can't compare Zab to a Leonard or Duran in terms of power.

 

If duran hit harder than Judah , it is only marginally. Was a different class of fighter obvioulsy.

 

Yeah, a guy who dropped Iran Barkley at 160, 25 pounds above his natural weight, only hit "marginally" harder than Judah.

 

I do agree with JoM. Judah punched hard and Duran was more of an accumulation puncher above 135. Obviously Duran was far better but as punchers they were pretty equal and the difference to Ray isn't huge either

 

Seems reasonable.

 

Forgot about the RTD vs Oscar's corpse, sorry. the cotto fight wasn't at 147

either way, the main point is still that they were A LONG time prior and pac hadn't come close to knocking anyone out for years and hasn't once since. 12 fights, 7 years, no stoppages at welter. Mosley was coming off separating mayorga and margarito from their senses albeit with a long layoff in between.

Semi-shot oscar and alvarez are debatable as being bigger KO threats than the mosley floyd faced but pac isn't in the discussion. And comparing any of those guys to the threat leonard would pose is some.

 

I'll concede to Duran but at 147 Leonard had CONSIDERABLY more power than Judah.
To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Unless you're THAT impressed with stopping Cosme Rivera and Cory Spinks, cause I'm not. The man couldn't dent an ancient Rafael Pineda at 147

Judah's power is being way overrated. Either that or you're underrating Ray's power.

Watch Leonard-Green, Leonard-Ranzany, or Leonard-Price and tell me Judah was close in power

Laughable.

For the record, Judah's power was a lot more dangerous at 140.

 

Power and ko threat are two different things anyway, Leonard could hit a guy with the hard shot then step back, sit down and land a bunch more whereas Judah would flail and leap and end up falling into a clinch.

 

They are different, but Leonard had more power overall. His left hook was a more powerful punch than Judah's left hand. But it's to be expected.... Leonard was a much bigger man than Judah.

Zab was a dangerous puncher at 140.

 

Leonard was never known as a puncher whereas Zab was. Ergo I don't see how anyone can claim that Leonard punched significantly harder than Zab. Don't let the fact that Leonard was a much better overall fighter cloud your judgement here. Their power is comparable, even at 147. Ray got knockouts more from precision, and accumulation than power. Zab had more explosive one punch power from my observation. Different league of fighters but not different league of power.

 

When TF was Judah known as a puncher?

 

When he first came out Lou Duva was calling him "pernell whitaker with power". Obviously, he turned out to be no pernell whitaker...but the boy was known for his power. He had something like 20 KOs in his first 25 fights.

 

So your entire logic here is...Leonard is a better fighter than anyone Floyd fought, therefore Leonard would KO Floyd. I...I...I just can't!

Floyd has NEVER been dropped by a punch and never been even remotely close to being stopped. The most he was ever hurt was against Shane...and guess what within seconds he had Mosley backing up and on the defensive. If a guy hasn't been dropped by a punch in 49 fights and has never been in jeopardy of being stopped, and is known as one of the best defensive fighters in history to boot...there is no basis whatsoever for saying that he'd be knocked out by some next fighter...UNLESS that next fighter is known as a one punch knockout artist at the very least.

 

You can go back and read what i actually said if you care, we're just going round and round

 

We're going in circles because your argument is inconsistent and it's inconsistent because you already have a premise, which is that Leonard could knock Floyd out. So to make that premise work you assert that Shane was Floyd's greatest KO threat....you dismiss Pacquiao because that's convenient, You dismiss Oscar and Alvarez because they were neither of them as good as Leonard, whether or not they hit as hard or harder or not....so we're back to the beginning which is that Leonard would knock Floyd out. Logic be damned.

 

*sigh*

honest to Christopher Robin

 

*sigh* back at ya.

I think at this point we have a ceasefire and go back home to our wives and children. We just don't agree on this and that's that. ;)

 

LOl, Judah was always known as a puncher. What a weird statement you just made.

 

But you also have to admit...it's true.

 

Can't really see any version of Dúran that beats Mayweather at these weights unless he somehow intimidates or gets him off his gameplan with rough-house tactics....but I think Floyd would eventually neutralize these also.

Too accurate, too fast, too smart.

Mayweather on points at all weights.