Highest/Lowest ring IQ among great fighters

List some. Keep in mind, I'm talking about the lowest IQ among HOF caliber fighters. So guys like Khan, Berto, and Jermain Taylor don't count.

Highest ring IQ amongst greats (in no order, and just to name a few):

Duran
Floyd
Hagler
Holmes
Walcott
Hopkins
Whitaker
Carlos Ortiz
Monzon
Pedroza

Lowest ring IQ amongst greats (in no order):

Cuevas
Mosley
Oscar
Bowe
Pac
70s Foreman
Hamed
Edwin Rosario

 

Oh I disagree straight off the bat ^ ... Jermain outsmarted the 'cunning, legendary master' TWICE I'm afraid, and literally I am afraid because it turns some posters purple.

 

Jermain didn't outsmart shit. His youth, size, quickness, and energy is what gave Hopkins trouble, not his brain.

Plus, I've said it before, I had Hopkins winning both Taylor fights.

 

Roy Jones Belongs HIGH on the "Highest Ring IQ" List...

Despite his Off the Charts Athleticism, Roy was a THINKER More than a Mere REACTOR...





REED

 

I meant to include Roy. Dunno why I forgot him.

Yeah, his ring IQ was extremely high.

Roy's ONLY downfall is that he became lost once his physical tools left. But I don't think that's due to a lack of IQ. I think he knew what he wanted to do, and saw all the openings, but his body said "Nah, I can't do that anymore."

Mike Spinks belongs on the extremely high IQ list. He might not have come across as the smartest or most articulate guy oustide the ring, but inside the ring he was a fantastic thinker.

I can't stress enough listing Oscar on the low end. DLH was just NOT a smart fighter at all.

 

Underrated ring IQ - Tyson.

Yes, he had power and speed that was off the charts, but don't be fooled... Tyson's style required a certain level of intelligence. If Mike had the ring IQ of Amir Khan, I assure you he wouldn't have become a great.

His style wasn't purely reactionary like Hamed. Prime Tyson was analyzing guys behind the peek-a-boo, feinting, probing for openings, then exploiting them.

 

used same approach on desiree washington

 

Lol

I agree that Tyson had great ring IQ. I would like to add Juan Manuel Marquez ( a personal favourite of mine ).

Of course Hopkins, Mayweather and Whitaker need to be near the top.

Ring IQ for me is knowing how to adjust to the style of your opponent and exploiting weaknesses.

 

I don't think Pacquiao belongs on either list. The guy is far from low IQ, otherwise he never would have been able to outbox, well, pretty much everyone he outboxed since he became a sort of safety first boxer puncher who just decisions people.

Pacquiao has become much more of a thinker over the years, and sets a lot of traps and feints. He had a lot of success long after he stopped being a non stop whirlwind of speed and power.

He's no Duran or Floyd in the IQ dept, but I think he's a level above everyone else on that list.

 

Marquez definitely deserves a spot on the top list. He's a constant thinker in the ring, with less ring IQ he wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful.

 

I agree with Oscar on the low btw. But I am surprised about Roy being mentioned as high.

I mean, I love me some prime Roy as much as the next guy, and I've seen a lot of his fights, but he strike me as more reactionary than anything.

 

Me too actually. For me Roy won on being a superhero in terms of natural physical gifts, not on IQ. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Roy was the recipient of experimental super soldier serum. But once his speed and reflexes dulled he was out of ideas.

Hopkins however was beating guys well into his late 40s based on IQ alone

 

i heard reed was the recipient of roy's experimental super serum

 

Yup.

 

FACT!




REED

 

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

If Roy had a high IQ, he would have had more success once he slowed and aged, just like Duran, Floyd, Hopkins, or even Pacquiao.

 

Roy's COMMENTARY is Evidence of his Ring IQ...In btwn Sucking His Own Dick, Roy Actually Gives Very ASTUTE Observations, Often FORESHADOWING What Will Happen, Sometimes Down to the Very Punch...

In the Aftermath of his Fight w/Tony Thornton, Roy Spoke of Thornton Getting LULLLED by Jab Patterns...So for 2 Rounds, Roy Would Throw a Half Hearted Left Jab to the Head or a Meatier Left Jab to the Body. Before Long, Thornton Disregarded the Jab to the Head, Since It was a Non Threat, Yet Would Parry the Jab to the Body...

In Round 3, Roy Feints a Jab to the Body and Turns it Into a Leaping Left Hook to the Chin, Which Dropped Thornton...

That's Ring IQ...

In his Prime, Against Southpaws, Roy Would Sometimes FREEZE Into What REED Called a "Karate Pose", Left Arm Extended Away from his Body...The Moment Roy Paused, Southpaws Would Inevitably Fire a Right Jab, but Roy Would Beat them to the Punch w/a Chopping Counter Left (from the Extended Arm Position)...He Dropped Reggie Johnson AND Put Antoine Byrd on the Brink of Being Stopped (Seconds Later) w/this Very Move...

That's Ring IQ...

Virgil Hill Fight...For 3 Rounds, Roy Fired NATHAN But Counter Right Hands OVER Hill's Left Jab...Round 4, Roy Fires a Counter Right Hand UNDER the Jab, to Hill's Unprotected Body, Ending the Fight...

That's Ring IQ...

The RE w/Griffin, Roy Threw, yet Pulled Back on the Left Hookercut to Gauge Griffin's Reaction...30 Seconds or So Later, Roy Worked Out the Proper Angle and KO'ed Griffin w/the Same Shot...

Ring IQ...

Roy Jones STUDIED Boxing (1 of THE Move Avid Watchers of Fight Films in Boxing History) and PROCESSED Information Very Quickly...And Yes, he Had Otherworldly Athletic Gifts, but he was MUCH More than just an AFFLETE who Boxed...

His Ring IQ was Elite Level...





REED

 

To Be Fair, The End of Roy's PRIME was 98ish...He Didn't Start Losing Until 6 Years Later...

REED Doesn't Know if it's IQ as Much as Boxing FUNDAMENTALS, that Enabled Those Guys to Last...

Roy had MUCH More of a Fundamental Base as an Ammy, than as a Pro...But 1nce You've NEGLECTED Fundamentals for as Loooooooooooooong as Roy Did (Albeit SUCCESSFULLY), You're Not Going to All of a Sudden Revert Back to Them, Late in Your Career...

To REED This Explains Why Roy NEVER Deviated from the Style that Made him WHO He Is...Even as he Started to Age, that Style STILL Worked for Him and Then, Seemingly Overnight, it DIDN'T...






REED

 

REED muh man, I still can't say I agree. I mean, the examples you listed are the sort of things I know Roy is capable of. He obviously had a degree of offensive skill to go with his immense talent, and wasn't just a dumb afleet, but the same can be said of almost any elite fighter. They (almost) all have some tricks, some degree of thought and skill, or to be honest they simply wouldn't be elite fighters.

I'm not sure there is a clear cut definition of ring IQ, but to me it's the ability to adapt your fighting style to different opponents, come up with a different gameplan for different opponents, be able to adapt your style mid fight, and also the ability to out think a fellow elite fighter.

 

That's an absolutely foolish and ignorant statement.

I don't give a shit HOW talented a fighter is... it's IMPOSSIBLE for any fighter to go undefeated for over a decade in dominant fashion if they have a low ring IQ. Absolutely impossible.

Do you HONESTLY believe that prime Jones would have been as good as he was if had the brain of Zab Judah, Andre Berto, or Amir Khan? I assure you, he would not have been.

 

If you wanna argue that Roy didn't have the ring IQ of Duran, or Whitaker, I can live with it. But his ring IQ was damn sure not low.

He doesn't dominate the quality fighters that he dominated with a low ring IQ.

 

Speed and reflexes are useless if you don't have the brain to know how to utilize them. You can get by at a CERTAIN level with talent alone, but on Jones' level... for the amount of time Jones was on that level... your ring IQ has to be high.

 

Back to the topic... Pipino Cuevas had a low ring IQ for a great. He got by purely on aggression and a left hook that came straight from the depths of Hell.

High ring IQ ... Dwight Qawi. We're talking about a guy with no amateur background, who learned the sport late as Hell while in prison, and was able to develop into one of the most sophisticated pressure fighters in history. Yeah.... it takes a pretty damn high ring IQ to do that.

 

It's All Good, Brother Mex...Miss Having FRUITFUL Debates w/You, Bruh:emoji_thumbsup:...

To REED, Ring IQ is @ Play When You Can Almost "See"/"Feel" What that Fighter is Thinking/Thought...Setting Traps and CAPITALIZING On Them is a Prime Example and Few were as Good @ That as Roy Jones...

REED Can't Think of Many CLEARER Examples of Ring IQ than he Gave, in the Case of Roy...In Addition to Being Superior Athletically, Roy OUT THOUGHT the Vast Majority of his Opponents...

As PIVOTAL as Adaptability is, REED Doesn't Equate it w/I.Q, Personally...

1 of the More Famous Instances of Adaptability was Leonard-Hearns I, Where After Getting Hurt, Hearns Elected to BOX Leonard, who In Turn Elected to Seek and Destroy Hearns...That Being Said, Those were OBVIOUS Adjustments in REED's Opinion...

Most Adjustments are Born Out of NECESSITY, and the Level of Talent Must Also COINCIDE...Only Reason Hearns and Leonard Adjusted was Because they KNEW they Could, Not Because of Ring IQ...

Again, REED's of the Opinion Roy NEGLECTED his Fundamentals to the Point they WEREN'T There when he Needed to Fall Back on Them...1nce You're in that Latter, Muscle Memory Phase of the Game, that's PRIMARILY Based on Fundamentals...




REED

 

I have to stop you right there.

With that logic any good commentator has a good ring IQ and any bad commentator that's a former boxer (such as Lennox Lewis) has a bad ring IQ. Terrible terrible logic my brother.

 

Lewis actually had extremely low ring IQ until Manny got ahold of him. He was dumb as a brick in the early 90s.