Ali of 1966 vs Frazier of 1971

What transpires?

I say Ali wins easily

 

Ali would never win easily against Joe Frazier

 

Agreed. And I'm as big an Ali fan as anyone on the forum.

As usual, Sly talking out his sore from Floyd ass.

66 Ali DOES win though, but it damn sure ain't some Cleveland Williams virtuoso performance.

Frazier's style always gives Ali problems.

 

Yeah it's inevitable that Frazier starts getting to him ... Sly, Ferdie Pacheco and Thomas Hauser are the only guys think Ali ever has an easy win over Frazier (or Ken Norton for that matter)

 

The Ali of 1971 would have struggled with Liston.

 

Ali.

But it's always close. Frazier's attributes match up well with Ali. And out of 3, I could see Frazier getting 1. It's never a mismatch.

 

DUDE.....

You really think the Ali that butchered Ernie Terrell would have struggled with Oscar Bonavena? GTFOH

 

Not sure what that has to do with Frazier or Norton but Bonavena was a better fighter than Terrell with a style better suited to giving Ali a hard time

 

Anyone with eyes can see that Ali in the mid 60s was a superior fighter to the one that returned from exile. The spiteful Ali that Tortured Terrell and Patterson, destroyed Foley and Williams...would NOT have had anywhere near as hard a time as he did with Bonavena. Bonavena was the warm-up fight before Frazier and that's the relevance. Frazier didn't fight an Ali at his best. He didn't fight the dancing master with the cat like reflexes and the Welterweight upper body movement ability. Rather he fought a stationary Ali that lay on the ropes and didn't move his head all that well. Anyone who fights Frazier like that would have a hard time and possibly lose. The Ali of '66 is a completely different fight for Smokin' Joe.

 

Patterson was an injured fighter against Ali in that first fight, a back injury that badly limited his upper body movement which for a guy whose defense and head movement was an essential element of his style was totally debilitating ... just putting that out there

Bonavena was a better heavyweight than Ernie Terrell and his style would definitely give Ali more problems than Terrell's

Ali's 70s opponents were streets better than his 60s opponents

 

Frazier beats him imo

 

An extremely important factor which would certainly go some way to explaining why Ali looked so untouchable prior to his layoff. Surprising that Sly didn't notice it.

MTF

 

Ali's fights with Bonavena, pre and post layoff looked very different as were his fights with Patterson. Ali's mobility had changed markedly. Ali had a different style in the 60s compared with the 70s. Anyway...this is well documented so I wont waste another moment on trying to point it out.

 

Different style doesnt means that he was a lesser fighter though

 

Ever see Ali do this shit consistently in the 70s?

 

Ali in the 70s was flat footed and relied on his other strengths to win. He was a more vulnerable fighter post layoff and I can't believe people are arguing otherwise.

 

, oh wow he pulled his head back to avoid a few jabs (in the second vid). He did this a million times in the 70's

 

I give up.


FUCK all'a'y'all!!!!!

 

Look, I kind of agree with you that Ali probably was better before the ''exile'', but the older ali had a few advantages over the younger one also. It's not as clear cut as your portraying it

 

Exactly... overall he was better younger (aren't we all) but he had certain advantages as well and most importantly his opponents were way better

 

That first GIF always amazes me whenever I see it, insane shit.

 

but Ali had the success he did against Frazier because he planted his feet and laid into him...had he been on his toes dancing then Frazier would have mowed through him
would a 60's Ali use the perfect blend of flat footed combo's and foot movement to then move away from the return fire? naah

 

So much bullshit

 

you disagree that if Ali moves more, he would hit Frazier with less than he did in '71?

 

No. But if Ali moved more he would have been hit far less by Frazier and his hit vs get hit ratio would have been far better and thusly he’d have had more overall success

As it is he played rope a dope against Frazier which is the worst thing to do against a guy that never stops throwing.

 

Ali did what?

MTF

 

For most of that first fight Ali just lay on the ropes.

 

I see Sly is using everything possible to discredit Joe Frazier yet again and in this matchup I see what he´s doing clearly.
He is matching up an absolute prime Muhammad Ali from 1966 (27-0) against a just past-prime Joe Frazier from 1971 (27-0)

¨But...but....they both had 27 fights, so it must be an even matchup¨?!

Wrong. Frazier in 1971 was 4-5 fights from being ´physically shot´, which is why Ali gave him a shot in 1975.
He misjudged Frazier than as Sly has done here: by thinking Ali went the distance with Frazier in ´The Fight´ he thinks a pre-layoff Ali would dance and destoy Joe.
He´s wrong.

Let´s see how it pans-out when faced with pure, prime Frazier of 1967-1969: Fraizer basically walks down and walk through Ali in about 12 rounds.

 

I have honestly never heard anyone make the claim you just made.

MTF

 

With the exception of the ridiculous last sentence this is a good post