Why was Norton introduced first in the Holmes fight?

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Double L, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    28,616
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Why? Anyone know?
     
  2. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    57,857
    Likes Received:
    4,321
    Location:
    CURTIS COKES' Birthplace...
    Not Sure Why Specifically, But the Fact Norton Never Actually BEAT Anyone for the WBC Title Probably Had Something to Do w/It.

    A Former “World Champion” That was WINLESS In World Title Fight’s.






    REED:Hammer
     
  3. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    28,616
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    I thought he beat Young
     
  4. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    17,162
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Home Page:
    It was an eliminator, not a title fight
     
    REEDsART likes this.
  5. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    108,227
    Likes Received:
    8,090
    Location:
    In The Trenches With My Boy Sepp
    Home Page:
    I am pretty sure Norton inherited the WBC title after Ali retired.

    The documentary Champions Forever says so.

    1:11:15 mark

     
  6. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    108,227
    Likes Received:
    8,090
    Location:
    In The Trenches With My Boy Sepp
    Home Page:
    10:01

    Joe Frazier: "I was moving like a sharpshooter. Anything I went at I made sure it was on target".

    Misses with his very next shot. :Jest:
     
  7. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    57,857
    Likes Received:
    4,321
    Location:
    CURTIS COKES' Birthplace...
    @ The Time There was Only WBA/WBC...Ali was Undisputed Champ...

    After Spinks Beat Ali, Becoming Undisputed Champ, He was Stripped of the WBC Title for Failure to Face the # 1 Contender, Ken Norton...

    Instead, Spinks Gave Ali an Immediate RE, Norton Was Appointed "Champion" of the WBC and Lost His 1st "Defense" Against Larry Holmes...







    REED:Hammer
     
    StingerKarl likes this.
  8. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    28,616
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    Norton was champion then. He should've been introduced second. Weird.
     
  9. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    57,857
    Likes Received:
    4,321
    Location:
    CURTIS COKES' Birthplace...
    Could Have Been a Don King Related SLIGHT Or It Could've Been NATHAN, Who Knows???:Dont:...

    REED's Pretty Sure Holmes was Introduced PRIOR to Gerry Cooney as Well, Another Don King Promotion...






    REED:Hammer
     
  10. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    108,227
    Likes Received:
    8,090
    Location:
    In The Trenches With My Boy Sepp
    Home Page:
    Larry Holmes had great uppercuts with either hand. Just noticed that.
     
  11. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    17,162
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Home Page:
    I thought about the Holmes vs Cooney thing too, in fact I wrote about it in my boxing book

    In ancient history there have been shamanistic ritual displays, in which the idea has been to prevent something bad happening for the tribe. A mask-wearing person has personified a disease, a foreign tribe or something, and then the Shaman has symbolically driven it away or killed it. This threatening character has always been introduced to the audience first, before the guy who defends the tribe has arrived.

    Boxing has been the same way, the one who threatens something prestigious has arrived and has been introduced first. When no championship is on the line, the visiting fighter gets introduced first, the home guy second. When it is a championship fight, the challenger who threatens to shake things up is introduced first.

    So my theory about Holmes vs Cooney was, that this way Holmes was introduced as the bad guy, in a subtle manner. Holmes was the one who was the threat that could threaten something prestigious, and Cooney had the role of defending the home tribe.

    I fully acknowledge that I might be reaching to see something that isn't there and it all could be a coincidence, but in the case of Cooney vs Holmes I don't think its far-fetched, considering what else was going on around that fight
     
    Jesus of montreal likes this.
  12. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    108,227
    Likes Received:
    8,090
    Location:
    In The Trenches With My Boy Sepp
    Home Page:
    It was financially motivated as it so often is with King.
     
    REEDsART likes this.
  13. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    57,857
    Likes Received:
    4,321
    Location:
    CURTIS COKES' Birthplace...
    You're Not Reaching @ All in Your Last Sentence and NO ONE Was More Acutely Aware of How to Manipulate Race and Boxing for FINANCIAL Gain Than Don King...

    He was Never "Blacker" than He Was for Ali-Foreman in Zaire or When Tyson was 1st Released from Prison...And it Wouldn't Surprise REED in the Least if King Actually WANTED Cooney to Beat Holmes That Night...Cooney WAS Holmes' Financial Ceiling; Cooney's Ceiling was LIMITLESS Back Then...

    Fighters were PROPERTY to Don King...He TALKED "Brother, Brother This, Racist White Devils That..." When it SUITED Him, But MONEY was All That Ever Mattered to Him...

    As Shitty as That Sounds (And IS), There was EVIL Genius to King's Method and REED Borrowed Traces of That Method w/Out Violating His OWN Personal Code of Ethics (or Compromising Fighters), During his Matchmaking Days...

    Close Friend of REED's Trained a White Guy Named Brent Urban...Ballsy, Tough Ass Dude Who Came By it Naturally, Growing Up in the Predominantly Black and Hispanic Oak Cliff Neighborhood of Souf' Dallas...One of Those Areas That Raises Eyebrows On Name Recognition ALONE, From Those Residing in the Dallas Area..."Oh, He's from Oak Cliff"???:eek:

    Trainer Friend Nicknamed Brent "Hurricane" Because of His Workrate, But REED Suggested a Better Nickname; "Oak Cliff Ghost":Jest:...Brent Had a Sense of Humor About It, Didn't Really Care Either Way, Kelly Pavlik was Popping Around This Time and the Moniker Elicited an IMMEDIATE Response from Dallas/Ft. Worth Boxing Fans...Nickname Even Made Airwaves on Dallas Area Radio Stations...

    And Since Brent Could Actually FIGHT a Bit, REED Was Able to Generate Decent Club-Show Ticket Sales on Some Charles Hatley and Luis Yanez Undercards BECAUSE of the "Oak Cliff Ghost-Brent Urban"...Instant Fan Favorite, Action Fighter and His Story was AUTHENTIC...He Wasn't a "Wannabe" , So Brent Drew Rural and "Urban" Interest Just By Being HIMSELF:Jest:...

    And Yes, Brent Was Always Featured on the "Good Guys" Side of the Bill, Walked Out 2nd and was Introduced 2nd, More Times Than Not vs. BLACK Opponents...





    REED:Hammer
     
    Steve-Dingo and Ugotabe Kidding like this.
  14. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    57,857
    Likes Received:
    4,321
    Location:
    CURTIS COKES' Birthplace...
    Boxing Book???...

    What's it Called???...Available in English???...






    REED:Dont:
     
  15. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    17,162
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Home Page:
    Unfortunately not. My publisher didn't know how to find an English publisher, and translating the book would cost a lot, after which I should find a publisher by myself
     
  16. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    57,857
    Likes Received:
    4,321
    Location:
    CURTIS COKES' Birthplace...
    Did he Google "English Publishers"?....





    REED:Elmo:
     
  17. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    17,162
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Home Page:
    :Jest: I said he was a publisher, not a Nobel-winning physicist
     
  18. whiskey

    whiskey Czarcasm

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    47,284
    Likes Received:
    5,130
    Perkele
     
    Ugotabe Kidding likes this.
  19. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    28,616
    Likes Received:
    1,819
    So does the same apply to Holmes and Norton?
     
  20. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    17,162
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Home Page:
    Not necessarily. It could be that in marketing the fight King wanted to portray Norton as 'the bad guy', but with King it could be anything else too, maybe even a screwup by the MC.

    In Jeffries vs Johnson Johnson was introduced first despite being the champion, btw
     
  21. Irish

    Irish Yuge, Beautiful

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    108,227
    Likes Received:
    8,090
    Location:
    In The Trenches With My Boy Sepp
    Home Page:

    Best version of this story that I ever heard told was by William Guthrie, the guy that Johnson beat to get the IBF belt he lost to Jones Jr.

    Easiest guy to listen to. If I can't sleep I put on William Guthrie.

    25:41 he goes on about King.



    But this one is best....

    3:40

     
  22. StingerKarl

    StingerKarl Ace Degenerate

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    Messages:
    6,543
    Likes Received:
    121
    Gender:
    Male
    Probably because Don King had the big bet on Larry. Norton won that damn fight.
     
    Jesus of montreal likes this.
  23. Neil

    Neil tueur de grenouilles

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    37,409
    Likes Received:
    4,002
    Occupation:
    The Cal Ripken of Alcoholism
    Reggie Johnson put guthrie to sleep. that was a brutal right hook
     
  24. Dog Jones

    Dog Jones WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    14,639
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    The announcer must have botched it
     
  25. Dog Jones

    Dog Jones WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    14,639
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    Hatton was introduced 1st against Pacquiao despite being 140 lb. champ
     
  26. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    12,948
    Likes Received:
    2,115

    think there's probably no truth behind this, but it's a cool and well tought theory Kudo
     
    Ugotabe Kidding likes this.

Share This Page