Carl Froch: Top 5 super-middleweights evah!

Well yeah, with the exception of Calz, none of them were elite.

Eubankthhhh, Benn, and Collins were all a level or two below Jones, Toney, McCallum, ect.

Froch is more-less the same level as Collins. Froch might have accomplished more than Collins, but head to head that would be a close fight.

DeGale was a bum and a level below all these guys.

 

But Calzaghe - really, what was there about him that was that special?
For YEARS on the old www.secondsout.com forum, he was derided:
* shit opposition until the Byron Mitchell KO
* Joe ´Sick-Note´ Calzaghe - always injured/postponing
* outclassing a hype-job called ´Left Hook´ - big clue, right there on how to beat him

I really give Calzaghe credit for the Mikkel Kessler fight (and who had he himself fought up to that point?)

 

I'll give Joe credit in that he was the best super middle in UK history.

I don't think he would have beaten Toney if James was on his A-game.

Calzaghe-Ward would be a close one.

And forget Jones, because Joe himself has admitted several times he wouldn't beat a prime Roy.

 

Calzaghe clearly was a step below elite. You dont arguably lose to reid and methuselah Hopkins if you're elite. And your best win is not a contentious dec against the aforementioned methuselah Hopkins. But then, a lot of man child are terribly impressed by his undefeated record.

The idea if him being levels ahead the other top uk sm is pure unadulterated madness

 

I thought Calzaghe beat Hopkins. It was a competitive fight, but I never complained about the decision. I had Joe winning.

I do NOT think Calzaghe would have beaten a prime Hopkins, but it means something that he was able to beat a Hopkins that still had a good amount left in the tank.

Put it this way, even an old Hopkins would beat Eubank, Benn, and Collins.

I never thought the day would come when I defend Calz, but OF COURSE he was elite!

Unless your definition of elite is very different from mine. Don't let hate blind you from objective truth.

I hate DLH, but he was elite as well.

Whom would you consider "elite"?

 

Also in fairness to Joe, he deserves credit for the Kessler win. Hindsight is 20-20 but the fact is that MANY were picking Kessler in that fight, and yes, I was one of them. The majority of the forum picked Kessler, from what I recollect, so I was hardly alone.

I thought Kessler beat Froch clear as day in their first fight, so it says something that Joe clearly beat him three years before he beat Froch.

Alright, done with defending Calz, it's making me nauseous.

 

Calzaghe did about as well as jean pascal did (the first time around) against Methuselah Hopkins. Was far from an impressive performance. I give him the Kessler fight, but Mikkel showed afterward that he wasnt as good as we first thought ( didnt even win one second of his fight against ward)

What i meant by not being elite is that je clearly was a notch below the very best fighter if his era

 

"I see a 168lb Mike Tyson mixed with a 168lb Evander Holyfield".

Dan Bermingham chatted some shit, I'll give him that, Weapons Grade Bullshit.

 

Carl Froch is a top five 168 pound boxer, also known as “super middleweight”.

 

One thing is certain, all of the boxers mentioned so far in this thread would've beaten Gennady Golovkin if he'd moved up.

 

Bull. I am on record, on this site, picking Froch to expose that fraud. Look it up. I favoured Froch big time to do that chump.

But JC lights him up. Terrible style matchup. And I'm a huge Froch fan.

MTF

 

Absurdity

Jc couldnt even lit up kabary salem and sakio bika.

No way hes having an easy time with froch, in fact he would lose pretty clearly.

It's insane how much this coward is overrated. Would have been great if he believed he was as good as his fans think he was. His resume wouldn't be such a wasteland

 

As much as I never rated Calzaghe and his resume even less, this comes down to a style issue: his style is all wrong for Froch.

Froch himself admits the smart money would be on Calzaghe to outpoint him.
I just think if a Ward/Kessler can outpoint him, Groves gave him fits in fight 1, then Calzaghe could & would also.

 

Ward was a much much better fighter than clazaghe, and he didnt have an easy night out against froch. JC might have won against Froch ( unfortunately enough, he did his ducking special, so we wont ever know), but thinking he does so easily is pure unadulterated madness

 

How did you score Ward/Froch?
Froch says he was clearly beaten but the judge cards were odd: 118-110 and two 115-113´s

In another interview I saw recently, Froch also says he wanted his final fight to be at Las Vegas against Julio Cesar Chavez Jr, for some reason...

 

Dont rebember. Only rebember that ward was liting him up early on, but Froch pressure got to him and he lost the last few rounds. Didnt felt it was thas close of a fight per se, even if the scores were

 

Those fights have no bearing on how a fight with Froch would go down. Froch had real problems any time he faced speed. Taylor beat him up early, he couldn't last a glove on Direll, Ward nearly stopped him and even Groves, who was basically crap, have him a lot of trouble until his chin gave out.

Calzaghe has terrific handspeed and, unlike Taylor, a great 12 round engine. He also had a much better chin than Groves. He is a terrible style matchup for Froch. Terrible.

MTF

 

I had Ward - Froch 7-5 as I watched it. It didn't feel like a close fight, because Ward won six of the first seven rounds big and Froch's were less impressive, but he defintely won at least four of the last five rounds and Ward was back-pedelling quite a bit by the end.

Froch had no case for winning the fight, though. He got the shit kicked out of him in the middle rounds, especially.

MTF

 

Everybody struggles with speed, but froch showed through his career that he can handle speed fine. The "he cant handle speedster" argument is pretty nonsensical considering his best performance came against a guy who was really fast. Froch pressure would get to jc, who doesn't hit hard enough to deter him, and his jab would land a lot against jc bullshit style.

And i dont dont think calzaghe had that good of a chin. Got put on his ass often, even against non puncher. Sure he has a better chin than Taylor, but that's not saying much

 

The 'Calzaghe-has-a-good-chin' started around after his fight with Robin Reid:


But he isn't absorbing those shots from Froch, imo.

 

Yes and MWS too, I remember it, it was around the time of the CL final between Chelsea and Bayern in 2012.

 

Where those 8 years went ................

 

I watched the Froch vs Ward fight and I can assure you ......you're right. Calzaghe isn;'t absorbing those shots from Froch.















Cos Froch ain't landing them.

 

Also what a dirty fucker Ward was. The way he openly put his open right hand on Frochs head, and then pushed his head down and onto a left hook, and Smoger let it happen. Repeatedly. Froch should have arm-barred him and told him if he did it again he'd rip every ligament in that arm so he'd never use it again. Ward tried to take Frochs heart in the 4th and he never tried again. Ward had his best round in the 7th and he basically ran the last 3 rounds, he didn't fancy it after that....he was settling for his lead as Froch was just coming on again.

 

Insane. Ward was a much better defensive fighter than jc. Simply insane

 

Poor post.
If Reid can land at will, so can Froch.

 

No. Froch has long arms and was at a disadvantage versus Ward. Froch loves to tee off from the outside on his way in and then land his windmills.

He wouldn't know a short punch if it bit him in the arse.

He's a flailer and a thresher.

Reid has shorter arms and shorter punches.

 

One reason Froch would badly struggle with Calz is due to physical strength. I'll give it to Calz in that was extremely physically strong at 168 - moreso than Froch.

Joe would break Froch's forward momentum by pushing him back and nailing him with fast combos. Fast, slapping combos, but combos nonetheless.

There's VERY LITTLE case to be made for Froch having a chance against Calzaghe.

 

Say the guy who picked bute to beat froch easily

 

You're basically using Stafford logic. If I picked Michael Spinks to beat Calzaghe, Stafford would say "Yeah, just like you picked Lacy to beat him."

Yes, Froch proved most of us wrong and hammered Bute. Good for him!

But Calzaghe was a lot better than Bute.