I would argue that following Floyd-McGregor, boxing had MMA in a bad position, and if things were done right might after that, boxing may have re-overtaken MMA as the premier combat sport in the US. Instead, the incredibly short-sighted greed of the paywall, poor scheduling, continued mismatches, as well as HBO leaving the sport fucked us. HBO leaving REALLY HURT American boxing, and it's time we stop living in denial about that. DAZN's one of the worst things to ever happen to boxing. With HBO still around, kids like Vergil Ortiz, Haney, Teofimo, ect would have gotten more exposure.
i think boxing was primed to have a resurgence that was slowed down by the shutdown. promoters are hesitant to put on premier matches without fans. cage fighting has continued on as usual with its mediocrity.
I still feel HBO was a huge loss. If HBO sticks around, and Arum takes his ball to ESPN, I think MMA would have been in trouble. When it happened, I was one of the biggest ones saying we're trouble, but too many posters were like, "We don't need em! Fuck HBO! DAZN will be great! It'll be fine." We did need them. HBO was the face of American boxing.
Believe it or Not Brother X, There WAS Boxing Life Before HBO and the Sport Continues to Exist w/Out It... HBO's Impact is Undeniable, But You're Acting as if HBO WAS Boxing...The FACT of the Matter Is, Their Refusal to Work w/Al Haymon is What ENDED Them... HBO Got ARROGANT About Their Position in Boxing and SHAT it Away...If They LOVED the Sport as Much as You or REED, They'd STILL Be in Business... REED
It was. Sure there were plenty of valid criticisms you could level against HBO but their production quality was top notch. Watching a big event on HBO was superior to anybody else by quite a margin. There was something special about it that's not easy to describe.
The production quality of a 1991 HBO telecast looks superior to the production quality of a 2020 ESPN telecast. Let that sink in.
HBO Chose Merchant Over Tyson and EGO Over Haymon... REED Cries No Rivers When a Motherfucker Shoots HIMSELF in the Foot... REED
In Hindsight, the Look on Spinks' Face Lets Us Know That HE KNEW He Had NOfuckingCHANCE vs. Mike... He's the ONLY Motherfucker in the Pic that Doesn't Look Relaxed or At Ease...At All...& REED Doesn't Recall Mike Being "Extra" w/Spinks in the Build-Up, as He Was w/Others... The Pitbull Didn't Need to Bark, Growl or Show His Teeth in This Case... REED
Maybe Spinks had psychic abilities we don't know of, and could see 30 years into the future. He was thinking, "My God, I'm standing next to a monster. And Mike Tyson."
HBO was practically the only thing between Boxing and the awful, glitzy, tin-foil, style-over-substance presentation that we got now. HBO understood that for every tree you chop down you gotta plant 2 or 3. DAZN think they can have some fucking CANELO $99.99 extraordinaire and it makes up for nothing happening over the past year or so. It's literally all $$$ now. Build up ONE MEGA attraction and milk it, fuck everything else. It always was about $ but you had to generate some sort of a sense of occasion.....they literally think they can generate an amazing bundle of noise on short notice. I don't get the feeling of guys being brought along anymore. Dudes seem to land, ready packaged, make a load of noise........disappear. Don't they remember how Canelo was made, brought along, fighting guys like Molestomir and knocking him out? But it's not just that. It's the packaging. The louche, half-dressed, slack manner of the presentation and the promotion. It's all very hoppity.
When Trump and King and Mike spoke, people listened and WANTED to listen. There's a great line out there in a law book I have of a guy going on a cruise and taking part in rigged card games. When he's told that the games are rigged he says "I know. But these guys are the best company on the ship". It's the same here. Look, this opening sequence makes me feel like a major event is going down and that I need to be at it, or in on it:-
Yes but the mediocre plodding turtle of cage fighting is putting in the miles. In the meantime I am wracking my brains to remember the last fight card I wanted to stay awake to watch. I think it was Fury vs Wilder. That's February 2020.
There are no raconteurs in mixed martial arts. It's a hard sport to talk about warmly. It has no history like what boxing has. There's no way to regale people with tales of simpler people in simpler "better times". We got Michael Buffer. They got Bruce Buffer. We got Golota, they got Golota's physically retarded country-cousin. And he's the CHAMP. Golota was just a contender. What are they going to say??? "I remember it like it was yesterday. President Trump was shirtless in the Walter Reed facility and Blachowicz, a gentleman giant, was sitting on the face of Reyes, rubbing Liniment into his eyes with his gluteal fold. It was a glorious time". 50 years from now some cross between Peter Griffin and Doug Fischer is going to be trying to tell a story about how Adesanya dry humped a guy he'd knocked out with a slap to the ear. MMA is not a sport that sells well beyond the sheer outright carnality and brutality of the sport itself. It doesn't age well. Nobody will EVER see a picture of Adsanya or Tim Sylvia or a coked-out Chuck Liddell and say to themselves "Those were days of Grace". It's not something that sells itself to posterity or quiet reflection. And yet boxing is putting all its eggs in one or two baskets and hoping that the sheer magnitude of single events will help it stay afloat. MMA on the other hand has a far less stringent policy {everybody gets a shot once they complete a basic programme} and seems to keep ticking over with low profile but accessible events. You look at what happened to Dillian Whyte. The guy was just verging for a title shot this past year. He winds up OUT COLD in Eddie Hearns back garden. NOBODY is there to see it. It should have been for something instead he loses to a total re-tread. It does nothing for the game. Ruiz gets a massive break and we wind up with a rematch in SAUDI and it stinks. Joshua subsequently does nothing since.
Well it sort of does, but mainly from it's primitive beginnings when it was more of novelty (or even freak show to some) rather than a sport. No weight classes, very few rules. Complete unknowns with more theoretical fighting knowledge than practical experience. It was kind of interesting as it was more like an experiment where pretty much nobody knew what was going to happen. "Experts" didn't really exist. People watching it were learning at the same pace as the commentators and competitors. Once it became more professional naturally it grew but i think you're right about the "days of grace" part. Guys go on a short run and get some notoriety but nobody other than the hardcore fans care about Chuck Liddell, Tito Oritz or whatever star of the past. You're a star today, get the shit knocked out of you tomorrow and a then a footnote. Same thing will happen to Connor whoever happens to be on top right now. There is no Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson etc. It's not just about time differences, MMA in general is not conducive to building such legends. The closest would be Gracie, but that's more because of how effective Brazilian Jiu Jitsu turned out to be, not as much the man himself.
Yeah but both of you are missing the point here. MMA lacking any history isn’t going to matter because today’s generation doesn’t care about history. They’re too used to the next big thing to care about the past big things. I also disagree that boxing’s biggest issue against MMA is networks and contracts, I see it being talent and skill. MMA is not only surpassing boxing as entertainment but it is absolutely destroying it when it comes to personal use as self defense not just because it’s more applicable to a street fight but because boxing can actually be absorbed into MMA as self defense. What this means is way more people practicing MMA which creates more and more talented fighters for MMA networks to find and build. So it doesn’t matter if the next Chuck Lidell gets smashed tomorrow when the next Jon Jones is right around the corner and MMA is having zero issues finding new and exciting talent from all corners of the globe. With the talent thing, I watch a guy like Jermall Charlo dominate the middleweight division with sloppy foot work and amateurish looking punches. Guys are getting a lot further in boxing just off of talent and athleticism than they used to and the declining skill of boxers lately is something I’ve noticed slowly happening for a while now. Meanwhile on the MMA side guys are just coming in better rounded and showing more skills than ever. A one dimensional guy like Royce Gracie could never come in and rule the UFC today based on one skill set.
I'm not sure about today's generation not caring about history. Certainly things have changed and everything is faster paced but some foundation is needed for people to remain interested. Everyone will continue to listen to music no matter how shit it is. It will always be produced. That doesn't mean they will keep following the same style of music particularly with one major company controlling nearly all of it. While boxing isn't near as big as it once was, MMA has taken a hit as well. In my own (admittedly anecdotal) experience i knew people younger than me who were pretty big into the UFC. They ordered the PPV's, had parties and would it be a topic of conversation on the regular. Can't recall the last time any of these guy even talked about it. I'm not saying MMA as a whole is fad, but for many it simply was. As far as self defense you'll get no argument from me. Clearly it's far superior to the martial arts kids grew up learning in McDojos.
McDojos I remember the good old days when "TAEKWANDO" classes involved showing up with £2 and then you ran around for 20 minutes and shouted at each other.
