Underrated all time greats

Two who immediately come to mind:

Carlos Ortiz: Doesn't get mentioned nearly enough among the Latin greats, even though he was every bit on the same level as a Chavez, Arguello, and Napoles. Has an absurdly deep resume, and dominated the lightweight division in the 60s... all the while as a full blown alcoholic, I might add. One of the most versatile and skilled fighters who ever lived.

Vincente Saldivar: Easily a top 5 Mexican great, yet even among hardcores he's largely unknown/not talked about it. He's the 4th greatest southpaw of all time, behind only Whitaker, Pac, and Hagler. Saldivar would take apart Barrera and Morales.

 

a top five greatest southpaws list without Marcellus TOO SHARP johnson is like leaving panch off a top 5 boricua nonce list

 

Saldivar's resume kinda bodies Too Sharp's.

 

From the oldies, I have sometimes wondered why Marcel Cerdan doesn't get mentioned more. Superb record, KO over Tony Zale and an even fight with LaMotta with one working arm

 

Joey Napoles

 

Napoles is pretty highly regarded amongst historians, and gets plenty of recognition.

But fellow Cuban Luis Rodriguez belongs in this category.

 

Gotta add Ernesto Marcel to this list, as he's an all time great who's not even in the goddamn HOF.

 

Good call!

 

THREE ALL-TIME GREATS!!

 

mohawk bum

 

Who's Mohawk Bum?

 

He was almost on his death bed, very very ill and almost KILLED Lemon Loser

 

Joe Frasier. Especially on this site.

MTF

 

Yes, Frazier gets underrated a lot, cause of the foreman fights. Pretty much everybody thinks hell fold against any big puncher

 

Dick Tiger. I remember when Hopkins challenged Tarver for the LHW title, HBO listed times that a MW had challenged a LHW champ. They didn't even include Tiger.

A number of great MWs from the '30s (i.e.: Fred Apostoli, Freddie Steele) get overlooked whenever great MWs are discussed.

John Henry Lewis. Sadly, it seems the only footage available of him is getting blasted out by Joe Louis in the final fight of his career (his only stoppage loss).

 

At 160, I do not think there's many middleweights in history who beat Tiger in a war. You had to box the man to win.

Going to war with him was a one trip to pain.

Tiger hammers Canelo and Golovkin imo.

You're right. He's vastly underrated.

I still often rewatch his beatdown of Florentino Fernandez.

 

Battling Battalino.

Had an impressive run as FW champ in which he beat at least THREE HoFers (Kid Chocolate, Fidel LaBarba, and Freddie Miller) in title defenses and also bombed out ex-LW champ Al Singer in a non-title fight. Also scored wins over ATG bantam champ Panama Al Brown, HoFer Bud Taylor, and bantam champ Bushy Graham.

It seems he was underrated even in his own day, since he often entered his own title defenses as the underdog.

 

Nice thread

 

Great shout. I've always thought Brown himself is quite underrated, at least amongst current day boxing fans.

 

A lot of the lower weight old timers from about 1900 to 1925. It's not my area of expertise compared to some but there tens of dozens of fighters with outstanding records, beating other great fighters numerous times etc, but struggling to get title shots in the melee or a lot of NDs. Lack of footage, boxrec being incomplete and enlightening information often requiring hard work, time and research to gain a clear picture has consigned a lot of outstanding fighters to the scrap heap of time. Even on hardcore forums you rarely hear the likes of Lockport Jimmy Duffy, Benny Yanger etc even mentioned. Even underrated guys like Saldivar, Ortiz, Battalino, Genaro, Pete Herman, Memphis Pal Moore, Joe Lynch etc are talked about at lengths ranging from semi frequently to frequently.

I've mentioned it a few times on ESB, but past generations of near great/great Mexicans still receive little fanfare compared to Barrera, Morales, Marquez and even more infuriatingly, the Alvarez hype train. When, worst case scenario, they were at least as good and with deeper resumes. Chucho Castillo, Rafa Herrera, Jose Medel. To a lesser extent and arguably not quite as good, Macias, Becerra, Rodolfo Martinez. No internet or heavy network backing to bring them along undefeated or shove them in the public eye. Even Finito Lopez, who beat appalling opposition, and Chiquita Gonzalez, who got knocked out frequently in his prime are more heralded than Gilberto Roman or Guty Espadas Sr.

I think a lot of us would go nuts if extensive footage existed of Holman Williams, Eddie Booker, Cocoa Kid and other members of the Murderers Row.

 

Good shout on Castillo, Herrera, and Medel, Tin.

All significantly underrated.

Becerra I've mentioned on here recently, in the "Best Left Hook KOs" thread, for his classic KO in the Halimi rematch.

 

Yeah that's a great finish by Becerra, he just explodes into it. Halimi was a damned good fighter too, Becerra looks tremendous in that fight. Something of an enigma, Becerra. The Ingram tragedy seemingly had a bad effect on him. Wouldve been another boost for Jofres legacy if he'd taken the title from Becerra rather than fighting Sanchez for the vacant strap after the latter upset Becerra into early retirement.

 

Booker seems to be underrated even among proponents of the Murderer's Row. Burley gets heaps of credit for outpointing Archie Moore, but barely anything is said of Booker's stoppage win over Moore (the first of Moore's career) just a few months earlier. On top of that, Booker also beat HoFers Holman Williams and Lloyd Marshall and future HW contender Harry Matthews.

 

I won't lie. There are some gadges being discussed here I'd not heard of. Enjoying reading about some of them here and then elsewhere as a result of this thread.

MTF

 

Tin knows his stuff. He's very good.

 

Willie Ritchie was another criminally underrated LW champ. He won the title by forcing HoFer Ad Wolgast to foul out of their fight, then successfully defended it against top contenders "Mexican" Joe Rivers and "Harlem" Tommy Murphy before losing it on a highly controversial decision to another HoFer, Freddie Welsh. Years later, when Ritchie was likely past his prime, he was credited with outfighting the ATG Benny Leonard over a 4-round no-decision. Ritchie was given a rematch, but this time Leonard was too much for him and overwhelmed him for the 2nd of only 2 stoppage losses of his career.

Here's his fight with Rivers. Ritchie really impresses me with his array of outside boxing and infighting skill, plus he was scrappy enough to slug it out when need be.

 

Paul Berlenbach is another fighter who may not have had a lot of longevity, but had an impressive run as champion for as long as it lasted. After bludgeoning ex-champ Battling Siki to get a title shot, he outpointed Mike McTigue to win the title, then racked up wins over HoFers Jimmy Slattery, Jack Delaney, and Young Stribling in title defenses. In his heyday, he was known as a somewhat crude, but rugged and relentless pressure fighter with a big left hook. After losing the title in a rematch with Delaney, it seems his chin wasn't the same and his career took a sudden downward turn.

Here's footage of Berlenbach against dancing master Slattery. The ending isn't shown, but Berlenbach won with a stoppage in the 11th.

 

I'd add Howard Winstone. Could have easily the greatest featherweight from the UK, but unfortunately ran into one of the greatest featherweights period in Saldivar.

And speaking of Saldivar victims, Sugar Ramos is a HIGHLY underrated great.

 

Jose Legra, also underrated.

It's a testament to the greatness of Jofre that he could take the title from Legra, as both the much smaller and much older man.

He's Legra at his best:



Legra was also robbed against the excellent Johnny Famechon: