Underrated all time greats

Some of the mainstream lists of the best British fighters make me wince.

 

I like to do it when I'm on the bath. It makes me hard.

"Ugh go on son.... Tell me all about the 30s bantamweight scene!"

 

Fucking mental is fine on Fightbeat.

As you can see, this is an entirely different environment than ESB - where "fucking mental" would get get filtered to, "***** mental" and you'd probably get banned - as I did about a month ago, for a week.

BTW, I messaged Bujia. We'll see what happens.

 

I agree, Tin. Just building on the point, I'd like to add that quite a few guys like that around the 50s, 60s & 70s. I've always thought that Conteh, Minter, Buchanan, McGowan and Winstone always fit in a similar vein of fighter. All were fairly rangy for their weight, quick of hand and foot, very dexterous and we'll balanced, with elusive upper-body movement along side slashing punching technique with a damned good jab.

Problem being that those advantages all point toward the average stick-and-move, hit-and-run type style. Not these guys, they fought with an arrogance about them. More boxer-buncher types who set themselves a bit and put a bit of sting on their shots rather than remain on the back foot or moving side to side.

It was like none of us had power, but all of us thought we did.

 

Bujia is coming over. He's registered under his old ESB handle of Sweet Pea.

I just gotta get our admin, Anthony, to verify both of them - a power I might be getting soon, as I just have more time to dedicate to the forum than Anthony does.

Or, @Punk if you see this first, can you let them in? Sweet Pea and Flo_Raiden.

 

Good observations George. Some of them hit harder than the others I think. Winstone and McGowan were light hitters imo, though McGowan had spite to his work. Buchanan was heavier handed but tended not to set his feet unless forced to. He fought some durable guys too and racked up a nice run of stoppages post-Duran before quickly declining. It took Cervantes, what, half a dozen rounds to stop Chang Kil-Lee and Kenny did it in two.

Minter had pretty good power I think, and wasn't really elusive enough on the back foot to avoid the best work of world class opponents. That was the issue for most of them tbh. Winstone and Buchanan were reasonably evasive, Winstone in a more economical way, Buchanan with more expansive and exaggerated upper body movement and jig-like footwork. Better at defending against hooks than straight punches. Winstone was gritty and tough but Buchanan was cyborg like with tremendous strength, endurance and late rounds stamina that won some big fights for him more so than his boxing ability. McGowan was more elusive but more defensively naive in instances and clearly an angry man to boot.

Conteh was the most naturally talented and well-rounded fighter of them imo, smoother, more fluid, better at slipping and countering. He was a really good puncher before he shattered his right hand on Willie Taylor's head and became more left-hand orientated and obviously was really effective when being dirty and rough up close. Lonnie Bennett outjabbed him early doors before Conteh got pissed off and waded in and just took him out. Of all of them, he was the best suited to being aggressive I think. Trouble was that he was a bit greener and less refined when he had two good hands. He became smarter and more refined, though still hittable, when his right hand was bollocksed, so we never really saw him at his potential peak even before drugs, booze, women and management turmoil ended his career.

 

I do think they were all better suited, power aside, as boxer punchers due to not being elusive or disciplined enough as stick and movers by and large, long story short. Conteh being best suited to it but unlucky with injuries to a point. Winstone was a good puncher as an amateur but that mangled hand just sapped his power, though his all round skill set developed a bit as a result.

 

Ayyyyyy!

 

Great stuff, pal. I agree that they're all different fighters, but I felt like that branch of Boxer-Puncher without the power was a good way to slide them in together.

Aside from their major fights, I've seen little of McGowan and Winstone. I agree with what you're saying, but I haven't seen enough to try and add to it yet.

I thought Minter was pretty light-fisted at world level. Not a complete featherfist per se, but defo not someone you'd be quaking in your boots about facing. His defence wasn't much special, though - I agree. I think his height, footwork, jab, and southpaw-ness is what made him tricky. He was extremely tall, and very good at using it.

Re: Buchanan, again I agree. I don't think he was an outright nasty puncher which could turn the fight around with one punch, but I do think he's similar, albeit lesser imo, to Watson. In that he has very good technique, is very accurate and is quite heavy-handed, meaning he gets this thudding slash of sorts when he lands clean. Can be devastating, can wear people down. McCallum had similar IMO, but again, at a higher level than Kenny's. I think Buchanan had a problem with his defence, and that's that he didn't have to see the punch to react to it. It was too instinctive. Duran, even young and fairly raw, feinted his way inside and to land clean multiple times. And because Ken was so exaggerative, he often launched his head straight into the punches Duran set up. But then again, it's Roberto Duran. Who gives a shit?

I think even without Conteh reaching his potential peak, he's still Britain's best LHW. So, he's going good considering. While I do find him overrated, and don't particularly buy that he was a destroyer before his hand problems, his power was a lot more pronounced before them. I agree he's the most talented of the guys mentioned. I think he has the best jab, and the best movement of upper and lower body. I don't think he'd ever be an ATG or sorts, but if he didn't ruin his hand problems, and retained the good bit of spite he had while gathering the experience he had by the time he fought Saad, I think he'd absolutely shoot up from the fifth of sixth best of his era to the second, after Spinks. Although I guess you could make the assumption that he wouldn't be as experienced/skilled whatever because he didn't have to rejig his style to suit bad hands and take a more technical approach. Always hard to make guesses like that though.

 

I clicked Donnybrook's profile some time ago. Even though he hasn't posted in eight years, he had logged in here in 2015, around Floyd vs Pac. He was a damn good poster

 

I'd like to add Young Kyun Park to the list underrated champions.

Not a great, but one of more underrated featherweight champions.

A brutal, brutal fighter, who took the title from Esparragoza.

 

Hello there!

 

Luis Manuel Rodriguez deserves a mention. Doesn't get talked about enough but he was a quality fighter.

 

Not NEARLY enough.

First time I saw film of Rodriguez was in the very early 00s when I bought a VHS of his win over Griffith. Even then, I didn't fully appreciate how great he was.

Wasn't until the last 5-6 years or so when I started really appreciating him.

 

I was the same as well. First glance he didn't seem at all as impressive as the smooth Napoles or flashy Gavilan but it took me a couple fights to watch him to make me fully appreciate his overall abilities and well rounded game. He impresses me the more I see him.

 

Interesting

 

I messaged McDogg on here asking him to come back. Not sure if he's seen it. If anyone has contact with him outside the forum, let him know the "old" version of the boxing forum is back.

 

I've asked John Thomas at ESB to come over, he's a top poster.

 

Cool!

Long as nobody invites Mark Ant, I'm good .

Both Chris's - 88Chris05 and ChrisJS, are coming over, I believe.

 

Not supposed to tell anyone, but he isn't here so we're all good. I might be getting the Paret-Scott fights in 2021.

Which leads me on to something.

Benny Paret is a very underrated fighter IMO. Some of the fastest hands I've seen at 147, and that's quite a line up. A granite chin, unbreakable will, a nasty inside game, and some thudding, Tiger-esque power.

I didn't think he deserved the decision vs Griffith, which removes his best win, but he's still a very good and very entertaining fightet.

 

Tell them those usernames are taken and they have to choose between Broner_Fan_2020 and Broner_Fan_2021

 

I forgot Chris Smith! Him bringing Jofre and Harada to the States has given him legendary status to me, and his stuff with Jofre, Zarate and good connections to great fighters were already highly impressive. Both are really valuable posters, Chris05 too. I don't mind mark tbh, hehe. I know he does peoples heads in and has an odd rambling non-sequitur posting style with weird leaps of logic etc. But he's inoffensive enough and good for a laugh and he takes a lot of hammer without being an arrogant, deluded arsehole like Mendoza or NoNeck. There are far worse guys on the ESB forum imo. I get the impression that he has some sort of social disorder or is on the spectrum tbh, though I may be badly mistaken and a bit offensive by speculating as much.

 

I believe he said himself he had some kind of learning disorder. I wouldn't mind him here to be honest - he does love the sport and I like him. Tbh, the person I wouldn't wanna see would be IB. He's just been a massive, arrogant fanny lately, and would try and 'take over' the forum. His posts are always amazingly solid though.

 

From Chris?

 

Nah, Woller.

 

He sells film?

 

Yeah, but don't mention I said I'm buying Paret-Scott. He doesn't want anyone to know. He also has Pops-Williams, although that was recently uploaded.

Also, I think you might like this. You can't find it on my channel without this link for now.

 

Ooooh George you villain!

 

They don't call me a Snarky little gobshite for nothing!

Yeah, I'm not bothered about being told to not tell people, but I'd still like to buy them off people. And I don't know why he doesn't want people to know he has it.