Great Fighters who Lacked High Ring IQ

DLH and Mosley were the first two who came to mind. Despite both being considered greats and HOFmers, I don't feel either had a particularly high ring IQ.

Others?

Remember, this is only greats, so idiots like Khan and Jermain Taylor don't count.

 

Pacquiao isnt particularly clever

 

Hes no Stevenson, that's for sure, as far as hof southpaws go

 

that goes without saying

 

Saad Muhamad is an obvious choice

 

The 1st Incarnation of George Foreman...

By the Time he Faced Ali, He'd ALREADY Started Neglecting His VERY Useful Jab and Wasn't Cutting Off the Ring as He Once Did...

Fell In Love w/His Power...BRAWN Over BRAIN...





REED

 

Tito

 

This is where it gets complicated for me. I'm not sure if Tito lacked boxing IQ, or boxing skills (mainly with footwork), and how can you tell the difference

 

For much of his career I thought pretty highly of Tito; he took his time, used his range, jabbed well, set up his punches.
Apparently, however, he bumped his head at some point and forgot he had two hands. His ring smarts and related skills started to slip about the same time.

 

He lacked great footwork.

His ring IQ was fine.

 

I hate to say it, because everybody knows I'm a big fan, but Pryor was no genius in there.

 

Agreed. He looked a better fighter around the time he won the title for the reasons you mentioned. Better shot selection, timing, variety, patience, a bit more up on his toes. He spent a lot of time between 95 and 98 though fighting poor, smaller opposition and blowing them away and it eroded his skill set imo and made him power happy. Good to see you here, your insights and technical knowledge are excellent, fella.

 

I don't think his skills started eroding until the move up 160, tbh.

I think the enormous hype that came with the Vargas win have gotten to his head.

Even at 147, blowing away second tier guys like Zulu, he was still showing patience and boxing, using his jab and setting up his shots.

After he beat Vargas, all the boxing magazines started comparing him to Robinson.

 

I thought when he fought Oba Carr in 94’, it might have been him at his best in terms of punch selection, accuracy, patience, maybe overall boxing. His opposition from 1995 to 1998 was definitely overmatched, he might have been a bit more aggressive and gone for the earlier knockouts simply because he could.

I thought there was some shift in his fights at 154 in terms of him loading up more often on shots, but still relatively mild. It was definitely noticeable to me though in those fights at 160 against Joppy and Hopkins.

 

Obviously NOT the Smartest Fighter, but REED Thinks Pryor's Recklessness was Born Out of Necessity...

Almost Always @ a Height/Reach DISADVANTAGE, Pryor HAD to Close Distance to Be Effective...And Once That was Accomplished, His Legendary Cardio/Work Rate Enabled Him to Overwhelm Foes...

REED Doubts Pryor Would've Been as Successful Fighting Any Other Way Than he Did...





REED

 

When they were on, they were on. Both showed very shrewd technical skill and knowledge in their best performances, but most of the time they sank to their opponents level to have a tear up.

Erik Morales and Evander Holyfield.

Morales' use of his length and reach against Pacquiao and Maindana was brilliant, so we're his feints. And Holyfield's use of clinching and infighting vs Tyson is one of the most ingenious tactics in heavyweight history.

But they could honestly both just be having wars with the likes of Alex Stewart or In Jin Chi.

 

In Jin Chi was on my watch list last night - his fights with Michael Brodie.

 

I love Brodie. Of all the people I've met in boxing, he has to be the most humble. He doesn't have any issues, no regrets, nor does he get defensive about his career. He's actually quite critical of it. He himself didn't think he won the draw, he told me anyway. He's very happy to teach, and surprisingly, learn.

Absolutely brilliant guy. Honest to a fault, and coz he was honest with me, I was with him. I told him I had him down four points in that draw. You know what he told me? He said that's how he had it, and even though he'd have rather won the world title, at least he didn't have to fight Erik Morales

Very good fights though.

 

He wasn't stupid, but i think his ring IQ was fairly low. He looked completely unsure most of the time of what to do against Hoya, Hopkins and Winky. That aint all down to footwork.

 

Even though it was 20 years ago, I vividly remember Muzse, like circa 2001, giving a long, brilliant breakdown of Tito's great ring IQ.

Back when Muzse used to give long, in-depth breakdowns.

Trinidad had a fairly high ring IQ.

It wasn't off-the-charts high like Floyd or Duran, but it was pretty good.

 

He always came across as a good bloke. He was robbed blind against Jorrin, was gutted for him that night.

 

I've never seen that fight. Wanted to watch it last night, but it's not on YT.

 

Was a good fight but Brodie clearly won most of the rounds, he got dropped and had to hang on a bit late on as I recall it but I was stunned when the decision went against him.

 

Jorrin os a great shout for whiskey thread. Had great speed but nothing else

 

jorrin had great speed?

when Chi fought morales Id see posters with his face as the key figure implying his bout with morales was the main event. jones jr vs julio gonzalez listed in small print as the walk out fight. due to the fact Los Angeles has more koreans living here than any city outside of Seoul i believe.

 

Fighters can fall in love with their power, they can slow down with age and wear and tear or they can just use the wrong game plan. No matter the case being soundly outboxed for the the vast majority of rounds against three different styles of fighters with little to no answer doesn't scream high IQ to me.

 

I've never seen that, and I never spoke to him about it. I've only met him once.

 

I actually think Pryor had good ring IQ... it was his execution that was sloppy and unconventional (similar to Gene Fullmer).

I think it could be argued that Dick Tiger's ring IQ was questionable prior to his title loss to Giardello, though he showed improved IQ in subsequent fights with Giardello and Jose Torres IMO.

I'd also argue Rodrigo Valdez qualifies for this thread.

 

Quartey wasn't much of a thinker in there. If he couldn't control woth his jab, he had no plan b

 

That drawn fight was an epic fight.

MTF