Who's Greater: Wilfredo Gomez or Alexis Arguello?

About two hours ago I'd have said Arguello, but after randomly thinking why I have Gomez so low on P4P list and why Arguello is way higher than him, I failed to come up with an answer.

What say you?

 

Not even a question IMO.

It's definitely, definitely Arguello.

Alexis has a case as a top 5 all time Latin fighter, period.

Gomez wouldn't be as high on such a list, though he could make a top 10.

 

I know arguello wouldve beaten the dog shit outta him at 126lbs

 

Arguello would have half killed Gomez at 126.

 

Duran, and Monzon are generally viewed as the two greatest Latin fighters of all time (and correctly so).

I've seen Alexis ranked as high as 3, and I don't have a problem with ranking him that high.

 

if Gonzalez wins the estrada rematch, then whips sor rungvisai and moves up to 118 to hammer Inoue, would you consider him #1 ahead of duran?

 

If you wanna compare them as fighters, Gomez was a lot more athletic and fluid on his feet. That's his advantage, but that advantage is overcome by the fact that Arguello was even better technically skilled, a lot more study, and for my money a better thinker.

 

LMFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Duran is a top 5 all timer.

Are you saying if Choco beats Estrada and Inoue, that he's up there with Robinson, and Armstrong?

I know you weren't being serious, that's why I laughed.

Choco is a great fighter - an all time great, in fact. As a matter of fact, he's the only ACTIVE all time great.

But no, you know damn well he is not Duran.

Duran was both a much better fighter, with a much better resume.

 

The Inoue thing is a pipe dream anyway. Choco is maxed out at 115 - he's too small to be a bantamweight.

 

I'd have to pull you up there, Pacquiao is still active.

And tbh, I don't think there's a huge world of difference between what Donaire's done, and what Chocolatito's done.

 

Ohhh shit, I forgot about old man Manny.

 

I think Choco can say with honor that he might forever be the second greatest Nicaraguan fighter of all time.

 

where does felix alvarado rank among nicaraguans?

 

I dunno, but I wanna say Terp's boy Rosendo Alvarez is 3rd.

 

I was thinking today how Choco does at 108 against some of the light flyweight greats.

While I dunno about him beating Zapata and Chang, I do think he would have beaten the crap outta Michael Carbajal.

 

As for this, for me, it comes down the fact that IMO, Gomez clearly has the better résumé. Pintor and Davilla are better than anybody on Arguello's record (I think Olivares was well past it by Arguello and certainly not better than either by that point), and obviously there's the demolition of Zarate.

Then I find laying waste to a division more impressive than clearing out two others which were fairly weak at the times AA was the best (LW was winding down from Duran's reign of terror, and FW was in a transitional period between after Shibata moved up and Marcel retired). And Gomez destroyed that shit like no-one ever did to a division. It's his now, he owns it.

And I know that Arguello moved up in weight more effectively and Gomez didn't. Gomez still beat Laporte more impressively than both Chavez and Sanchez.

 

It's a compelling argument, I won't even lie.

You've highlighted the fact why it's so criminal that Bazooka is best known for the Sanchez loss.

It also helps Gomez's case that in the late 70s, he was held in higher regard. He and Duran were considered neck-n-neck as the P4P #1.

I dunno if Alexis was ever held in THAT high a regard.

 

Can you do me a favour, X? Can you vote 'No' in the Zale poll on ESB? No reason in particular, I'm just a petty bastard who wants to win an argument

 

Arguello.

Gomez was Only Great at ‘22, Arguello was Great at Multiple Weights.




REED

 

Putting more thought into it, I don't think the greatness gap is as big as I initially thought.

Ultimately, and sadly, it does come down to the Sanchez loss. Gomez was destroyed in his prime. Arguello wasn't.

Even two weight classes above his peak weight, Arguello still put up a helluva fight in a losing effort to another all time great who was the bigger man, whereas Gomez just got destroyed.

That's probably what hurts Gomez's standing. But ultimately, I was wrong - there isn't a huge separation between them. Both are a top 10 all time Latin greats, and matter of fact, it's probably worth revisiting the list.

 

While we're on the topic of greater/better, one I do disagree with - many historians ranking Olivares as greater than Gomez. I don't see that one.

I consider Gomez BOTH greater and better than Olivares.

 

Has to be Arguello. More quality wins and more titles while moving up. Gomez was more dominant in one weight class but Arguello is arguably Top 3 greatest Latin fighter along with Duran and Monzon. Even H2H I would favor Arguello to beat Gomez if they were in the same weight class.

 

Yeah, I would pick Arguello in a P4P matchup as well. It comes down to chin.

 

I voted yes - soz. Not sure I even think that either!

 

Gomez had an argument as p4p no. 1 in the late 70s/beginning of the 80s as X has already stated - his win over Zarate was monumental - and that is something that Arguello probably wasn't during his peak... but rating his win over Davila as being more significant than anything on Arguello's CV is just not reasonable imo. I like Davila a lot but he's getting crazily overrated at the moment (Zarate's win over Davila being better than his win over Zamora? Really?)

Gomez was absolutely dominant at 122 as we all know. But Arguello was dominant at featherweight and super featherweight and could have remained so had he stuck around there longer. He pretty much cleared out 130 in the 24 months or so that he was active there and beat all the guys who would hold the title he vacated. He was as much no. 1 at 126 and 130 as Gomez was at 122. I think the overall quality of his opposition during those years was probably better than Gomez's as well. Arguello might not have been as good at lightweight as he was at feather and super feather but he was the man there having beaten Mancini who would hold the other strap, whereas Gomez was never the man at 126 or 130 - hell, he shouldn't have even won the super featherweight title with that horribly partisan decision over Rocky Lockridge.

This may sound like I'm down on Gomez - I'm not - but I think Arguello is greater. Maybe not by a huge margin, but it's clear.

 

Another thing worth noting about Arguello in comparison to Gomez when it comes to title dominance - between 1974 and 1982 (before he faced Pryor at jnr welterweight) he fought 20 world title fights across 3 weight divisions. After his first title fight ended in a loss, he then went on a 19 fight unbeaten streak in title fights, scoring 17 KOs. That compares with Gomez who he went 19-1 (19 KOs) between 1977 and 1982.

 

Good point, Jel.

Yeah, I've never waivered off the Arguello as greater, but my initial reaction was Arguello greater by a wide margin.

Now im thinking its close, with still a clear edge to Alexis.

 

Woah woah woah!

That’s why you’d have it closer than most. I don’t think Davila was any better than Ruben Castillo. At their respective bests, I’d give Ruben the edge, actually. Certainly at the times they faced the fighters in question.

Then you’ve got Chacon, Limon, Boza-Edwards, Navarette, Escalera, Legra, Mancini, and Ramirez (if you thought Alexis deserved it). Legra was clearly a level above in his prime, but I’m not sure where he still stood when Arguello blasted him out in the first round. All the rest were on a similar level to Davila, in my opinion. Most would probably even rate them above.

Lets also take into consideration that Alberto was significantly smaller and still a green horn when he met Gomez. Well, both were a bit green, but Davila was at more of a disadvantage, not being anything like the natural talent Gomez was.

Pintor and Zarate have better cases, with both being prime. But again, they were moving up in weight. I think that fits them alongside or just under Olivares, who was the Featherweight champion when he met Arguello, and would go on to win it a second time.

 

The Castillo win is underrated considering Ruben would go onto to give Sanchez a very good fight.

Alexis dismantled him.

Castillo was asked, and he said Arguello was a much better fighter than Sal.

 

Yep, Arguello faced more high quality contenders than Gomez imo. The standouts for Gomez were Zarate and Pintor without a doubt. Davila was at the very least a notch below Pintor and definitely Zarate and like you say, when Davila met him Gomez was clearly the bigger man (Davila was inside the bantam limit while Gomez was a super bantam already). If Zarate and Pintor were his standout wins, and we ignore his win over Lockridge in a similar way to ignoring Arguello's over Ramirez, you're left with LaPorte as his next best win and then maybe Davila... Juan Meza is probably the next best challenger he fought during his super bantam reign, I'd say.

The Zarate win might be the best that either fighter had but in terms of depth, Arguello's resume shines brighter with the names you've mentioned.

The point you make about Gomez's best wins coming against fighters coming up in weight is a also good one and reminds me that the inverse is arguably true of Arguello - certainly some of his best wins were against fighters who he was moving up in weight to challenge.

Yeah, Arguello's competition was consistently higher quality than Wilfredo's, I'd say.