Was just talking to my good mate about this, and I took another look at mine and it got me interested in seeing some guys lists. So let's see yours!
Good Lord, I've never made one, and it might require some time/thought. Here, I'll give a top 5, in no order: Hagler Monzon Greb Hopkins Robinson
#20. Joey Giardello #19. Mike O'Dowd #18. Lloyd Marshall #17. Tommy Gibbons #16. Leo Houck #15. Mike Gibbons #14. Stanley Ketchel #13. Frank Klaus #12. Teddy Yarosz #11. Holman Williams #10. Charley Burley #09. Freddie Steele #08. Dick Tiger #07. Jake LaMotta #06. Bob Fitzsimmons #05. Bernard Hopkins #04. Marvin Hagler #03. Carlos Monzon #02. Sugar Ray Robinson #01. Harry Greb HMs: Emile Griffith, Tiger Flowers, Gene Fullmer, Bert Lytell, Ken Overlin, Tony Zale.
Hagler/Monzon is neck-n-neck for my number 1. I used to think that Marv wins H2H, but Monzon ranks higher, and I've totally flipped that shit - I think Monzon wins H2H but Hagler ranks higher.
I think Hagler wins H2H but ranks higher. Hagler tended to go into pressure mode vs taller fighters and he'd have to vs Monzon. I think he can close the gap and land a little bit more in enough rounds to win the fight. I've seen them ranked together - taking two places at once - and the belief that if they fought it'd be a draw. That's probably the most balanced view you're gonna get on those two. Dead even. What I look for in greatness has always had lot of emphasis on résumé. It's why Robinson makes number two. I also don't include ANY basis on eye test or H2H. It overcomplicates things. I'd rather just say these are the guys who accomplished the most IMO, and here's who I think beat each one.
Hard to argue with Robi, Greb, Hagler, Monzon, and Hopkins comprising the top 5 - it's just a question of how you order them. After that, things get very murky and debatable.
Nah, I've long found Walker VERY overrated. His middleweight record consists of two wins over Hudkins, two wins over McTigue a disputed win over Flowers and a loss to Greb. I don't think that's enough to go in above Giardello.
My attempt: 1. Robi 2. Greb (could be #1) 3. Monzon 4. Hagler (could be #3) 5. Hopkins 6. Fitzsimmons 7. Walker 8. Burley 9. Tiger 10. Ketchel 11. Zale 12. LaMotta 13. Steele 14. Flowers 15. Mike Gibbons 16. Fullmer 17. Giardello 18. Benvenuti 19. Griffith (16-19 are largely interchangeable IMO) 20. Cerdan Honorable mentions to Apostoli, Yarosz, O'Dowd, Klaus, and Thil.
4 wins over Jock Malone as well. If he’s overrated it would be at any particular weight class rather than pound for pound, in my opinion. What are your thoughts on Sam Langford, by the way? PM me if you don’t wish to derail the thread.
I’m surprised people don’t ever mention Kid McCoy on these lists anymore. Tommy Ryan still seems to get ink, albeit more often as a Welterweight. Les Darcy would be somewhere in there for my money, too. He was really a dominant force before his tragically early death. A matchup between he and Greb is still one of the great ones that never happened.
Yeah, I suppose they're decent wins too. It doesn't make me thing he's top twenty, though. 20-30 is his worthy spot IMO at MW. I find him overrated in all aspects, but I sort of agree that he's the least overrated P4P. J don't he's he's a top twenty staple there either, I have him just short of thirty, if I recall correctly. Although my list has been disappointing me from time to time, and I'll probably revisit it at some point if I can be arsed in lockdown. I don't mind talking about Langford here, since I thought he peaked around the time he fought Ketchel. I think he's a top five pound for pound staple, but probably doesn't scratch the top thirty in any weight except maybe heavy. Looks a beast on film.
