Lightweight with the best chance versus Duran?

Not on the same level, but this is pretty much the case with Canelo as well. My boxing trainer friend was ringside in one of his bouts and he said that only then did he notice the nuances of his game

 

Agreed, and I think in terms of tangible skill, Duran was a clear level above Chavez. Even if it was unorthodox.

 

Thanks.

Yeah I think Duran is just too varied for Chavez.

For me, Chavez was "Have some of this, have SOME MORE of this".

Duran......stick his tongue out, dance contemptibly, hands down, and a mix of classic boxing, brawling, roughing, moving, staying in the pocket.

Just way too many variables- all done with menace and intensity- for a lot of people to handle.

Hearns was literally built to beat Duran........it's noteworthy that Duran did far better versus common opponents.

I also think that the 1-2 Randall dropped Chavez with wouldn't have even landed on Duran, much less hurt him. Ironically, that 1-2 is the sort of shot I'd have fancied Duran to throw a lot of vs Chavez.

Duran had, to use Bernard Hopkins language, lots of "black slickness". We don't call it that because he's "Latino" or some shit, but he was a streetfighter that unlearned all the bad habits and acquired good ones.

For me, the guys who always had the best chances in boxing were the guys who had no set routine or pattern. Vitali was better than Wlad. Happier getting hit and harder to hit. Hands down, weird punches, no set routine. Sure he runs into Lewis he has problems. But there's only one Lewis. Mike Tyson was faster, hit harder than Holyfield. He loses that bit of sharpness required for the Peek-A-Boo, all of a sudden he's vulnerable to a swarmer-boxer-puncher-mover kind of guy like Holyfield.

Even Pacquaio, when you reduce him down, has a sort of a box-bot approach, he's all step in BANG step out. I think it was Neil whose sig used to say "Fundamentals are a crutch of the talentless"- that's not true but it's kind of accurate too. A jab and footwork is essential but it takes you only so far. Throw in a good chin and fitness, it takes you a bit further.

The ATG is the guy who doesn't fit any category.

That's why I always regard "Tale of the Tape" with some suspicion, also Compubox. If boxing was a question of how long your arms are or how many punches you can throw a minute then we could literally make Champions every night.

It's always been about mentalities, styles, approaches. Jack Dempsey changed the fight game when he introduced his new style that threw off the old rigidities and embraced new styles and mentalities. Then Joe Louis took that and refined it and honed it into the basis of the modern style.

There are exceptions, there always are. Erik Morales in the first Pac fight proved what a really good jab and movement could do to Pac. Erik didn't have it after that, he used up all his reserves. Same with Whittaker vs Trinidad, he kind of exposed him in a way as such an old coke head should have been blasted out in 5 rounds. Whittaker proved vs Oscar and Tito that pure skills really do matter.

For me, you need a bit of skills and a bit of madness to really deal with Duran at 135.

 

I think those nuances have been enforced as Canelo lacks the fitness to work and move for 12 rounds.

Duran for me was a cunning plotter who could do it all at speed for 15.

Canelo thuds in heavy shots. Duran moves his hands and hurts people all the while.

 

Other- Benny Leonard. Such a great, tricky boxer. Still favor Duran though

 

Not sure Leonard had the size and the mentality. Saw his fight with McLarnin {when he was finished} and he landed sneaky shots alright.

I was looking through the "Old Timers" and Zivic is the guy who stood out to me as having the combination of mentality and physicality. The only knock is he spent time at 147 but he did fight at 135 so that's why I went for him.

Fought Conn, Burley, Armstrong, LaMotta, Ray Robinson, Al Davis........he'd be my guy from that era to really pose the biggest threat as he'd fought and beaten all styles, had durability, was tall and rangy but had an inside game and would be totally at home with Durans cheating.

 

No one gonna even give a thought to Packey McFarland? Or Joe Gans? Big threats, especially under older rulesets.

 

I thought I had mentioned Battling Nelson but I must have deleted it and started again.

 

Didnt know Zivic fought at 135. Thank you, Sir

 

My own recollection of Zivic is as a Welterweight but I have been looking at his record and seeing him coming in at 139,140lbs

30+ fights in he was still at 139 and he was fighting a guy who was 139.

Boxrec has him all over the place in terms of weight, I mean he's 149 but nobody is calling him a Light-Middle.

In todays game, he'd be making 135 easy and coming at 147 on fightnight.

 

Soooooo....

No one likes Juan Diaz's chances against Duran?

I'm sure @Neil does.

 

I think it's obvious the Baby Bull would be far to much for Duran.... today.

 

I would still bet on Duran.

 

Saul Duran would bash juan diaz head in

 

I like his chances of getting KTFO brutally.

 

Saul from Breaking Bad would beat him, never mind Saul Duran.

 

Duran's probably in better shape than Juan.

 

That's sad because I think Juan owns a gym.

 

I nominate this guy. Him and Duran, on the guys roof, to the death, in front of the dudes pigeons.

 

I own a skipping rope. Doesn't mean I use it

 

Juan pivots him to hell

 

Cheers

 

I dont think anyone on the list is favored to beat Duran specially at LW where he was arguably the best p4p. I'm not a big fan of Chavez but to say he has the least chance to beat Duran out of anyone on that list is crazy. I think it would be a war. Chavez never struggled with any "light weights" his first loss came as he moved up in weight to 135 against Randall. I think Manos de piedra would be the clear favorite against Chavez but I give Chavez a punchers Chance. I certianly rate Chavez higher than Mosley and Williams. I think Duran walks right through Whittiker like Trinidad did.

 

Too Sharp

 

I find it hard to rate Chavez above Williams with any certainty.

 

Good observation altough Mosley has an Iron Chin he didnt seem to have that mental toughness or as we like to say that dog in him when the going gets tuff. During the Dela Hoya fights you can clearly hear him telling Jack(his father trainer) he's scared of that left hook. I don't see Pacquio or Chavez giving up one inch against Duran. They would go out on their shield unlike Mosley who would go in survival mode.