James Toney vs. Carlos Monzon @ MW

Does Toney, who comes in at 180 lbs. here, re-hydrate enough to beat the gratist MW of are times in Monzon? Let's say under modern weigh-in rules, Monzon comes in at 170 lbs.

 

No. Monzon is all wrong for Toney.

Toney gets outclassed by both Monzon and Hagler.

 

I don't see Monzon being wrong for Toney. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that I don't think toney jad completely developed his skills had mw, id pick him

 

Oh well, i take it back, since i thought the first Callum fight was at smw id give that toney a great chance against Monzon

 

You've picked both Hearns and Toney over Monzon this week. You picked fricken Carl Froch over him a few weeks ago.

You constantly sell Monzon short. Extremely short.

Toney would have a helluva time trying to get past Monzon's jab, and he would find him a much harder and more awkward target than McCallum.

 

O might be. Bit still, these.guys aremt exactly scrubs. And P4P, i think Monzon was a few levels above Froch, but i dont think his style would be succesful against bigger stronger guys

 

Froch isn't appreciably bigger than Monzon, as I said before.

He's about an inch taller, but I don't think his frame is notably bigger. Froch, just like Monzon, is a guy who would be too small for 175. Monzon had a longer reach than Froch, and certainly knew how to utilize it.

The gap in class is much, much bigger than any size advantage. I think picking Froch over Monzon is a huuuge stretch. Monzon would beat the Hell outta Carl.

 

You might be right. I may overstate the size difference between the two.

 

Yeah, Froch I believe walks around in the 170s. He's not a guy who blew up between fights.

He's a fighter whos fortunate to come around at a time when 168 existed, cause pre-super middleweight I think he would have been too small for any elite light heavys.

 

I remember reading that Froch was 169 on fight night for either Bute or Abraham. Dunno how true that is, but I can't imagine he waw much more than that. I don't think he'd have more than a 5lb weight advantage on Monzon.

 

Even with a same-day weigh-in, guys were putting on like 4-6 pounds by time they got in the ring. They damn sure weren't staying at the exact weight they weighed in at. Once you start consuming water and have a meal after a weigh-in, that weight comes on extremely quickly.

So figure that Monzon probably weighed like 165-166 by time he got in the ring.

 

Froch is too much a sucker for right hands to give him any prayer in Hell against Monzon.

 

Yeah, I hate the narrative that every fighter from the mid-80s onward was like 20lbs above their weight and every fighter before was exactly what they weighed at the weigh in.

It's just ridiculous.

To be fair, he was sucker for any punch.

 

Former poster Cdogg was ridiculous about the whole weigh-in thing. It's one of the few things we disagreed about.

He once argued that Errol Spence is a naturally bigger man than Michael Nunn because of the difference in weigh-ins.

Nevermind the fact that Spence usually comes into the ring in the mid 150s and Nunn actually fought at 168-175 IN the 24-hour weigh-in era.

 

Yeah, that seems a bit of a stretch.

 

Why did cdogg leave? The amount of awful shit he dished out, it's ironic if he left because someone offended him.

 

He got a job as a special agent with the IRS and has been performing an in depth investigation on your ass.

 

The amount of weight-gain might get overblown at times, but it is clear that 24 extra hours is a great benefit.

 

You think I'm worried? It is a bit disconcerting though that cdogg is no longer toiling away here insulting people. That means he might be somewhere doing actual damage.

 

I have no clue why he left, but I suspect it's deeper than boxing. I think it's because this place became too right-leaning for him, but I stay out the political forum, so that doesn't affect me. I initially left because Mustard and BOSS had turned this place into a trolling shithole, and I'm sure that played a part in Cdogg bouncing.

I PM'd Cdogg about 3 months ago asking him to come back, but no response. I have no interaction with him outside the forum, so there's nothing else I can do.

 

Another issue Toney would have is that he often had trouble maintaining a consistent pace down at 160 (likely due to the effort to make weight), which would allow Monzon to pile up points during the sporadic lulls in Toney's output.

 

Correct. And I would add to this that Monzon was a bigger puncher than McCallum, and could put enough hurt on Toney with his right hand to make JT respect him.

 

Part of the reason McCallum did so well vs Toney on the cards was that he could cruise and win rounds at the same time. That jab, and the way he kept out of Toney's range was a nightmare for Toney. Now imagine that, but from someone bigger, better and who won't engage at all. Similar reasons are why Toney had so many issues with Nunn, Reggie, Roy and Griffin. Keeping at range, sticking a good jab and remaining passive is probably the safest and 'easiest' way to beat Toney.

For such an excellent counter-puncher, Toney was awful at making people lead. Sanchez suffers similar stylistic issues, but he was incredibly at making the other guy fight coming forward. Toney wasn't, and he suffers from this IMO. I pick Kalambay over him for similar reasons.

Awful match up IMO.

 

Agreed. Monzon was a master of dictating both the distance the pace of a fight. Almost like he was in charge of the rules of engagement an opponent signed for unknowingly and found out about later. Even with all Toney's skill i don't see him able to upset the rhythm.

 

I'm probably sure it's something more sinister than this. Wouldn't be surprised if the guy died, unfortunately

 

What makes you think that?

 

Because JOM killed him.

 

It's possible McDogg offed himself when Whitaker died.

 

You usually dont quit like that a forum you frequented for more than a decade.

 

Or maybe... he WAS Whitaker.