Lennox Lewis top 5?

I dont think there's 5. I think there's 3.

I think 66 Ali, 88 Tyson, and 73 Foreman beat prime Lewis. That would be all.

I used to favor prime Holmes over Lewis, but I've recently changed my opinion. I think Lewis likely beats Holmes.

 

Even though I think Larry is somewhat overrated from a historical standpoint, I've always considered Holmes to be Lewis's nightmare match up stylistically.

 

A very real possibility, but more and more I just consider Holmes' vulnerability to right hands.

 

I feel it's a very different story, prime-for-prime, because of how quickly and effectively Mike could get inside and explode. While Lewis' chin wasn't bad, I don't see it holding up to 80s Tyson's firepower.

 

I used to think Holmes would beat Lewis, but the more of Holmes I watched, the more I see how many issues he had with good, heavy jabs and how easily his cross could be countered when he got complacent. That sounds like a pretty horrible combination against somebody like Lewis.

 

I also think holmes match horribly.against lewis. Way too open to right hands to win this one

 

Yeah, my opinion on Holmes has kinda dropped.

Not only Lewis, but I think prime Frazier and prime Liston also whup Holmes.

 

Liston is a VERY dangerous fight for Lewis btw. I would submit the Bruno fight as evidence.

Not saying I would favor Sonny, but he's extremely dangerous for Lewis early on.

 

Personally I'd rank Lennox #1 of all time on the basis of who beats whom.

Obviously, several greats would have a chance against him and prime Tyson might even win four out of ten, but I'd make Lewis the favorite against everyone

 

I'd take Liston over Lewis. Don't forget Lewis' issues with Mercer, either. I'd also take Foreman, Tyson, Ali and prime Holyfield. I'm on the fence about Louis, but I think Lewis beats the rest.

Although I wouldn't take Liston over Holmes, I don't think he'd be able to keep up with the movement Holmes showed in the Shavers fights.

 

Some people are way overrating Lewis now. Don't get me wrong, he was a tremendous fighter, but he was highly dependant on his power (even moreso than Tyson imo). If he couldn't hurt you, he mostly look like shit. Just finished rewatching the Bruno fight and it's shocking how bad he looked vs a stiff, and he probably lose vs an old Tucker without the kd's

Yes, he could still be in the top 5 of all time on a who beats who basis. But to me, unlike what some are saying, I see him as the underdog vs Liston, Tyson, Foreman and Holmes; maybe versus Holy and Bowe too. And I hate to say it, but I think prime Ali beats him quite easily.

 

One aspect of Lewis that is underrated though is his fighting spirit. He was willing to go through fire (even though he was much more happy to play it safe if it was sufficient) to land his big punches

 

I wouldn't pick pre-Steward Lewis over the very elite all-time, but after that he has an excellent shot against anybody.

 

yeah but in lewis's case there's no fighter he couldn't hurt.

 

This

 

I can see the Liston- Mercer comparison of course but still I'd be very hesitant to give Liston much chance, mainly because of the size difference.

179 lbs Marty Marshall, 192 lbs Bert Whitehurst and 196 lbs Eddie Machen went full rounds with prime or near-prime Liston. They all were accomplished fighters but none of them would have been even licensed to fight Lennox. A midget of Lewis' era was 220 lbs Mavrovic.

Also I totally agree about pre-Stewart Lewis being much easier to beat than the mature version

 

To favor Lewis over Liston is fine. To say Sonny "has very little chance" is BS, and really sells Liston short. He always gets sold short.

Lewis ALWAYS had issues with heavy jabbers. He literally has a one punch KO loss to a homeless man's Sonny Liston in Rockhead.

I would also remind you that Liston, despite being 4-5 inches shorter than Lewis, had an EQUAL reach to Lewis - both 84 inches.

Liston without question had the power to hurt Lewis, and Liston in his physical prime was pretty damn quick and athletic. History paints him as a sloth, but that's not accurate at all.

Peak Liston is a VERY dangerous opponent for Lewis. You write him off like he's Michael Grant or something.

 

Sure, Liston had his arsenal and it could be that he'd steamroll every heavyweight in the history, barring Ali. Who knows.

My problem is that we don't have enough evidence and as we have often seen, looking destructive against good does not equate with crushing the best.

Most of Liston's victims are small guys on Lewis' scale. Would Liston's power still be as impressive against 230 lbs guys? Would he still be as impervious to pain as he seemed to be back then, against that opposition? I don't know.

If Liston can't trust his chin as much as he could against those guys, it affects his own aggression. If his punch isn't as destructive, it opens more chances to his opponent. How does his stamina hold up if he has 50 lbs of more muscle against him?

Everything affects everything.

I realize I stress size more than most, but considering how difficult it has been even for good cruiserweight to compete against these supposedly poor heavyweights, I would make Liston a huge underdog, based on probabilities. If that's an unacceptable opinion, too bad.

 

Yeah, but Liston wasn't a cruiserweight, so it makes no sense. You have to also consider that heavyweights in Liston's era were more focused on coming in lighter. Modern heavyweights just train hard, and whatever the weight is, the weight is. That's why Foreman in the 70s was coming in like 220-ish, but in reality, George was a much bigger man than that 220 reflected.

What I'm getting it is, Sonny Liston was almost certainly more NATURAL at probably closer to 225-230. He was weighing less than Tyson, but in reality, Mike was certainly not a bigger man than Sonny.

 

As great as he was, LL has some really horrible performances. Yes, every great look bad a few times, but LL against rahman looked particularly dreadful. Still, i think that when he was on point, there might not be anybody that beats him.

The whooping he put on Botha, who while no great was a solid fighter, is awe inspiring

 

And Rachman was literally an incredibly poor version of Sonny Liston.

 

He was a bit like hearns in the way that if he couldn't establish his jab and/or power he looked really poor. Obviously, these were pretty rare occurrences but stil showed a flaw in their game

 

The difference being that there's no such thing as outjabbing Hearns.

Even as an old man, Hearns outjabbed an all time great jabber in Hill.

 

I'm not saying outjabbing him, only to make his jab a non factor like hagler did. But for sure, there not a lot of fighter that could do so.

 

I've always thought Lewis would raise his game against young Foreman and try to blast him out, as he tended to do when he perceived a threat.