Great fighters who have been made look clueless

Adding to the list:

Both Benitez and Duran made Palomino look 2nd rate.

 

Loma vs. Rigo

Loma vs. Russell but Russell is not great but a lot of the guys mentioned here I would not consider great.

 

If we can open it up to making "very goods" look clueless, then I'll add Whitaker-Haugen. Greg was a very good fighter, and Pea made him look like he hadn't boxed a day in his life.

Also Jones-Johnson can be mentioned if we opened it up. Reggie, a damn good fighter, Roy just toyed with him and carried him.

 

I agree with Irish, there's a difference between not knowing what to do or being clueless and knowing what needs doing but being completely unable to do it for one reason or another. And it's not always easy to tell the two apart. Some fighters at a pronounced style disadvantage I think are sometimes unwilling to step outside of their comfort zone or throw caution to the wind when their plan A isn't working, especially if they are really great at what they do well. Ego plays a bit part as well a lack of confidence in trying an alternative approach, or a belief that trying a more unfamiliar approach is unlikely to make a losing scenario better than if you keep sticking at the approach that isn't working. A weird mix of self-delusion and underlying lack of confidence and determination, which you could argue is a form of cluelessness in and of itself.

The last time I watched Barrera-Naz it really struck me how Naz looked completely unwilling to try and cut loose on Barrera even though he generally lacked the balance and footwork within his own style to do it like Graham etc could, because Barrera's tactics were very simple. Not that I think Naz was great per se but it highlights my point. Whereas I think someone like Marquez tried to cut the ring off against Mayweather and apply intelligent pressure despite it not being his forte after his initial approach and micro adjustments didn't work. He just lacked the footspeed and ability to punch moving forward in a way that he never lacked being able to plant his feet and counter. He never looked to me like he had no idea how to solve the problem, he just couldn't do what he wanted and had other obvious problems. Smaller man, ill adjusted to the weight first time out etc.

 

have to open it up to non greats if you want whitaker in there.

 

Ohhh really? Is that right? Cause last time I checked, Whitaker schooled the living shit outta both the Mexican GOAT and the African GOAT.

Your Whitaker hate never ceases to amaze.

 

Great post, this.

MTF

 

Could only get my hands on an AP report, which doesn't shed much light on details, nor is it particularly reliable, but it's still something.

 

Off-topic but why is it that Argentinian boxers from this era have so many draws? I think Monzon too has like 9 or something?

 

I would love if the footage existed. I'm a huge fan of Cervantes, but Locche in his zone was a true wizard.

I don't feel Locche matches up well against a Pryor, Benitez, Chavez, Floyd, or Pac, but I feel he would shine against a Tszyu, Hatton, Randall type guy.

 

Really really off topic, but since you mentioned Argentina... I'm watching some Guillermo Villas later.

Ok, back to boxing!

 

It's to do with the old South American scoring system, even in a fight where a fighter wins on all three cards, can still end in a draw. It's because a fighter just win by three points or more to actually get a win. Eder Jofre's fight between the two Harada fights is an example of this.

 

I think Locche has what it takes to really trouble most great fighters at the weight. Even though he should've really lost, his fight with Ortiz was competitive and Locche's resume at the weight is absolutely incredible.

 

Dream matchup for Locche = Danny Garcia.

My God he would make Danny look like a total novice.

 

It depends on the style he's up against.

For instance, I see Locche outboxing Chavez for awhile, but gradually JCC's educated, relentless pressure would break him down. Locche would give a good account of himself though, and at times he would make Chavez look very foolish.

Against Pryor and Pac, I think Locche is in trouble because it's just too much attacking speed coming from too many angles.

And against Floyd, Locche is screwed because he's up against another defensive wiz who's just a lot better than him offensively, and a lot more physically talented.

 

Locche is the best PURE defensive fighter of all time.

All the other defensive GOATS, Pep, Floyd, Whitaker, Benitez, Canto, had better offenses than Locche.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much the only report of that fight that exist. There used to be a video of the last round, and not much is happening in it. Maybe locche was clowning around cause he knew he won easily, or maybe this was a microcosm of the whole fight. Who knows

 

To be honest, i don't hate that system. Maybe three points is too much, but i wouldn't mind fight with a round difference being called a draw

 

Not sure if Honeyghan/Curry counts. Curry was doubtless dead at the weight, but he looked as confused and clueless as they come in that fight.

 

if chico isnt an atg, Palomino ain't one either

 

Nah, it wasn't that one sided

 

Wlad vs Sanders looked looked like he never faced a southpaw before. Couldn't avood tje left hand to save his life

 

Palomino was objectively a better fighter than Chico. I think Palomino gets very underrated. He was a beast the night he destroyed Stracey for the title.

Comparing the two, Palomino wasn't as quick or as P4P deadly as Corrales, but he was more steady, more defensively responsible, and above all, had a better chin than Corrales by MILES.

The man got pummeled by Duran, but hung in there.

Chico, love him, but Duran would have wrecked Chico inside of 5.

 

I really dont see it. I think chico is a notch above him, resume wise and ability wise

 

palomino was better than chico because he beat stracey.

 

I would say Palomino was a more complete fighter than Chico, but Corrales was a better talent.

Palomino showed himself competent in losing clearly to Benitez, while Chico was wiped out by Floyd and Casa in a way that never happened to Palomino.

You guys are really disrespecting Palomino. The guy was one of the best body punchers in the sport's history, and had absolutely endless stamina.

While neither was a defensive wiz, Palomino was more responsible in that area.

Palomino made a comeback in the mid-90s and went the distance with Wilfredo Rivera.

Picture Chico coming outta retirement after almost 20 years and going the distance with a top 10 lightweight.

You guys are talking about Carlos Palomino like he was some mug.

 

Doub is hyping Corrales because he beat the man Doub consistently overrated.

I suppose you'll also tell us that Chavez's sparring partner was better than Palomino too..

 

Rigondeaux vs Lomachenko

 

i'm not disrespecting him.. just don't think he is better than chico.