Canelo vs Plant: Final Predictions, Discussion, RbR

Zilpaterol, from what i know, is very similar to clen and is also used on cattle, which can lead to contamination from eating meat

Just read a bit on Phentermine, and it's seems like a rather useless as a ped, bar for a little bit of weight lost. And according to what i read, involuntary contamination from a supplement is also very plausible

Anyway, none of these substances are very useful as ped, and only reinforce my point that if reynoso deliberately make his fighters take these drugs, hes a) an imbecile and b) not some kind of ped genius (if he has access to some effective, undectable ped, why would he makes his boxers take barely useful stuff that are easily detectable?).

To be honest, there is way too much things that are prohibited by doping agencies. They should only test the real potent stuff (mostly roids) and forget about all these other things that are barely more useful and dangerous than caffeine. Hell, a lot of them still have weed on their list of prohibited substance (or only removed it recently), even though it's pretty much a performance decreasing drug

 

Ain't that a bitch for Nick Diaz. Vada ruined his whole career because he pissed dirty for a performance decreasing drug. Thanks Vada

 

Why are Certain Drugs ON "Banned Substances" Lists if They AREN'T Very Useful as PED's???...That Makes NO Sense @ All...

REED is Mostly Indifferent About PED Use, Whereas You ALWAYS Seem to Take the Side of the PED User, for Whatever Reason...You ADMIT Most World Class Athletes are On SOMETHING, Yet You MINIMIZE Every Substance that Surfaces in the System of a World Class Athlete???...

If the Marquee Fighter in Your Camp Pissed Dirty for Clenbuterol, WHY Are You Fucking w/Potentially Tainted Meat as You Prep for an Upcoming Fight???...Canelo Pissed Dirty for Clenbuterol, Then Julio Cesar Martinez Does Likewise and You STILL Grant the Benefit of the Doubt to Canelo/Reynoso/Martinez???...

Oscar Valdez Pisses Dirty for Phentermine, Blames "Herbal Tea", Then REFUSES to Speak on the "Herbal Tea" He Ingested???...

Come On Now...

REED Was Born in the Day Time, but Not YESTERDAY!!!...

REED

REED

 

agREED...

It's Like Suspending a Guy for Being an ALCOHOLIC...



REED

 

Why was/is weed on the banned substance list of most agencies? I dont know why they put all these non or barely performance enhancing drugs.on their list. My guess is that by putting more stuff, it gives them an aura of credibility and they catch more "cheaters" hence giving them "credibility". But your guess is as good as mine

As for tainted meat, there's pretty much no way to know if it is or not.

And no,.i dont minimize it when the drugs taken is a potent one. For example, i dont defend pascal or big baby miller for their fail test, since it was for strong stuff that needs to be injected (hence no chance of involuntary contamination)

 

Bureaucracy...It's Not a Good "Look"...

Doesn't Diminish the FACT There's No Performance Enhancing Quality in Marijuana and Some Other Street Drugs Though, vs. the PROVEN/DOCUMENTED Enhancement Qualities in Clenbuterol, Phentermine and Other Drugs...






REED

 

Come on reed, ive given you a ton of articles that proves clen has no positive effects and might in fact be detrimental

 

I dont know why they put all these non or barely performance enhancing drugs.on their list. My guess is that by putting more stuff, it gives them an aura of credibility and they catch more "cheaters" hence giving them "credibility". But your guess is as good as mine

 

No, You Presented Articles that Suit YOUR AGENDA (Conveniently), Explaining the Effects of Clenbuterol on Lab Rats and Horses...

Last Time REED Checked, Canelo Wasn't a Rodent or Equine...


REED

 

Unfortunately, theres no studies that were made on humans athletes concerning the effect of clen on performance. The only one ive found that had humans as subjects was studying the effect.of clen.on person.with heart problems. And it also hints that clen is useless as a.ped. (btw, i didnt present the studies that fit my "agenda", ive posted all the studies that ive found that.were relevant to the topic. If you find any studies that arrive to a different conclusion, id be happy to read it)

Clenbuterol Impairs Muscle Quality and is Potentially Dangerous
Author links open overlay panelDirkHabedankMDMartinSteegMDStefan D.AnkerMD, PhD
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To the Editor:
In their study, Kamalakkannan et al1 investigated the effect of an anabolic agent on muscle strength and exercise capacity in patients with chronic heart failure (CHF). Their investigation of clenbuterol is of great interest and complements an earlier study by Harrington et al,2 who used salbutamol in the treatment of CHF and showed a potential negative effect of this β2-agonist. Harrington et al found that salbutamol failed to improve exercise capacity and increased the risk of arrhythmia, and therefore they proposed a trial with clenbuterol as a more potent anabolic agent.

Nevertheless, the results presented by Kamalakkannan et al leave more questions unanswered. The exercise capacity (peakVo2) did not increase after clenbuterol, and if data are analyzed in detail, one must assume a weakening of muscle as the net effect. This can be derived from their data showing a gain in lean mass in the clenbuterol-treated patients (26.1 ± 5.1 to 27.1 ± 5.1 kg) while peakVo2 remained unchanged (13.8 ± 4.5 to 13.9 ± 4.3 ml/kg/min), and hence the proportion of oxygen per kilogram lean mass, which is a indicator of muscle quality, could be calculated as approximately 47.1 ml/kglean/min pre-clenbuterol and 45.6 ml/kglean/min post-clenbuterol. Because oxygen supply by heart and lungs remained constant, as indicated by the unchanged ejection fraction on echocardiography and by the unchanged peakVo2, the decline in peakVo2/lean mass illustrates a worsening of muscle quality despite an increase in absolute muscle force. This impaired muscle quality may result from insufficient muscle perfusion, low mitochondrial content, endothelial dysfunction or from a shift to fast-twitch fibers.

Thus, even the “positive” anabolic effects of clenbuterol must be interpreted with caution, and must be placed in context with the severe adverse effects. The increase in heart rate in 1 patient of their study was covered only by an increase in metopro dose, another patient developed a ventricular tachycardia, and 60% of patients on clenbuterol had muscle cramps and tremors. This is in line with the typical side effects known from the literature and from the criticisms presented by the ESC.3

In conclusion, the study by Kamalakkannan et al was very informative, but the result is to the disadvantage of clenbuterol and should give further evidence to refuse the use of β2-agonists in CHF.

 

Plant tried slap avalanching his way to a decision but it didn't work

 

REED Presented What he Found and You Shot it Down...Immediately...

Because It Didn't Suit Your Agenda...

Nonetheless, the VAST Majority of Literature On the Subject Describes Clenbuterol in Similar Fashion to What REED Posted...It Aids in BREATHING, Which is an OBVIOUS Aspect of Stamina, Which is Something Canelo ROUTINELY Struggled w/Until His RE w/GGG...





REED

 

Most if these drugs might not be the bomb when it comes to increasing performance, but I'd bet most have masking capabilities. And I agree with Reed, those studies are on horses, rats and people with heart failures, would take a bit more than this to discredit Clen impact on a prime, peak trained athlete.

 

The site you cited wasnt a study, nor did it gave the source for the claims it made. Which is why it isnt a credible source.

There's a world of difference between a scientific peer reviewed study (which all the source i gave are) and some random internet site. A study.of this kind has a methodology that shows how they arrived to their result, and is proof read by experts on the domain to insure that the methodology is scientifically valid.

Ive seen numerous internet sites that claims that clen help with performance, but none of them gave any sources for the claim. All of their arguments are based on bro-science, which is absolutely worthless (the "it aid in breathing for person with breathing problems, hence it help stamina" is a perfect example of bro.science. Seems to make sense in theory, but isnt proven in practice (quite the opposite). It's similar to trump claiming that drinking bleach would cure you from the covid since bleach kills bacteria (well he didn't really say that but you get the point). Sounds "logical" but it's bullshit irl

 

None of them are listed as masking agent. And no, it doesnt take any more than these studies to discredit clen impact on the performance of an athlete, since there's nothing to suggest that it helps athletes. You can't discredit something that has no credit at all.

And according to a study, clen effect was even more detrimental to the performance of animals that trained than to animals that didn't train. So again, there's nothing to suggest that it would help a high level.athlete (bar weight loss)

 

About 14 years ago I wrestled with a guy early 20s who was like 5'8 140 lbs relatively fit who could bench 205 squat 300 and pull maybe 350.

On 2 12 week cycles of anavar he was benching 315 for reps squatting nearly 450 and deadlifting 6 plates with ease and he gained about 25 LBS. We went from relatively even to him being literally uncontrollable in a short time period. Year or so later he was off and we were back to relatively even.

He was a small collegiate prospect nobody who never failed any drug tests and made inhuman gains in a short period of time. That was a massive eye opener to me that you would have to be pretty unbelievable to naturally compete in any physical sport with somebody who is on steroids.

Wasn't hard for me to make leap in logic that if some use, the high majority must use to keep it fair.

You could see in MMA with PRIDE guys looking ordinary with drug testing and UFCs significant drop off in talent once drug testing became widespread.

 

Agreed a 100% (and anavar is a really really shitty steroid)

Ive went from benching 210 (after years of training) to benching 385 by cycling a few times. I dont believe for a second that some top level athletes are on the gear, while others arent. It is too much of a difference maker

 

We saw it in AJ between the two Ruiz fights, too.

 

Clen and Salbutamol are both Beta 2 antagonists and I can tell you that Salbutamol {aka Albuterol} will ABSOLUTELY loosen the airways.

I've often got a tight chest from using an airbike {where you are able to labour for much longer periods than you would if you were running} and some salbutamol and beclometasone will do wonders.

I am not saying Canelo is pumping the Clen and just going in and bashing peoples heads in.

He's clearly got some sort of a regimen for wringing every last ounce out of that body of his.

It could be that the Clen etc is used to help deal with oxygen deficiencies during camp.

 

Maybe for a few seconds after you take it, but not a few months before a fight.

 

Seems like more of a bodybuilding drug then helpful athletically but as stated earlier typically used in conjunction with other steroids that overall end up having massive effects.

Don't forget Panama Lewis was using similar asthma medications when investigated (black bottle) so whether it has true empirical efficacy or not, that tactic definitely has been utilized in the sport.

 

But in canelo case,. there's nothing to suggest he was stacking it with roids, since he only tested positive for that and all roids that i know of have a longer half life than clen (hence detectable for longer).

And panama lewis was using it during the fight, completely different from canelo testing positive for it two months before.

Anyway, from what ive gathered, ped testing in boxing is super shitty. They don't test all year round, only when a boxer is scheduled for a fight. If thsts indeed the case, i can guarantee you that some trace amount of clen is the least of the problem in the sport

 

Well I won't go on and on infinitely in this thread, but I knew several mid level oro boxers and a few guys who main carded and even headlined a UFC.

They all plead ignorance to anything steroid related, and by time I quit training and knew them better legitimately all of them were at least on test. A few even tried to explain to me that testosterone is not steroids .

It is lame, but it is what it is. I'm sure some guys have been able to do it all without it, but not many. Including most of my favorites.

Nate Diaz failed a test for crying out loud. So there goes the eye test.

 

I agree the keyword is peer reviewed. That site that Reed posted is not even a pre print. And if the clem that Canelo used was supposedly used as a masking agent why did he pass the hair follicle test? In the case of Canelo I think it is more a tainted meat situation. I know the national Mexican soccer team had a bunch of guys test positive for clem because of tainted meat.

 

Ok buddy

Alvarez woulda froze like heron in your nose vs Jones jr

 

I don't know it's a mythical match up. I know Jones was a great fighter but people act like Canelo is just a big brute with a low boxing IQ. His fight with Kirkland showed he could use his iq to beat bigger stronger punchers. I think Jones would beat Canelo but it wouldn't be easy. Just like it wasn't easy to beat 3 solid undefeated champions at 168. If it was that easy to be undisputed Jermell Charlo would've been undisputed by beating Castaño. I just realize that there's a sector of the boxing community that will never give Canelo credit. He's scared of Charlo and Andrade, 168 was a weak division, he's on steroids, he has trouble with good boxers, he would have lost to all time greats. I've heard it all. Lol

 

This guy just compared fighting James Kirkland to fighting Roy Jones.

LMFAOOOO!!!

 

He is on steroids? 168 is a weak division? He has had trouble with good out-boxers? What's tripping you up here?

And please, being smart enough to counter a caveman like James Kirkland means nothing in a comparison to Jones.

 

Jones is literally the worst style possible for Canelo. Every weakness of Canelo plays right into the the things Roy did best.

 

Let me go take a gander at Alvarez vs Kirkland and reevaluate my opinion on Alvarez chances vs a peak jones Jr. I'll be back later