Does any alltimer beat Roy Jones 1992-1996?

At 160 I think Michael Nunn has a slight shot. Gerald McClellan has a puncher’s chance.

At 168 Andre Ward can make it competitive and make RJJ look bad but still hard to see him winning on points.

At 175 I think Qawi could give RJJ hell but he’ll still be beaten to the punch and likely lose on points.

 

A lot of people talk about Ward giving Roy a tough fight, but I dont see it at all. I think the circa 94-96 Roy beats the fuck outta Ward and wins every round.

A Roy detractor might say, "But Griffin gave Roy problems!"

Yeah, Montell Griffin was an awkward midget. Which is why Qawi would be a huge threat to Roy.

Andre Ward is Roy's same height and isn't necessarily an awkward fighter.

Prime Roy beats Ward VERY easily.

 

Was the first Kovalev fight the only tough fight for Ward? No one is beating Ward very easily.

 

If someone is, it'd be Roy.

 

No one is beating a prime Jones who lacks firepower.

Ward isn't gonna smother Jones and outfight him on the inside. Anyone who thinks that foolishness is underestimating how effective a prime Jones could infight and how he routinely hurt and knocked guys out with very short, compact shots on the inside.

Ward would get badly hurt trying to smother Roy, and from the outside, the gap in speed is too huge for Dre to have any success.

Again, Jones beats Ward easily.

 

Ward is too good and crafty to be beaten easily by roy imo. You have to give the edge to rf cause of his speed and power, but i dont see this as a sureshot

 

If ward had futch instead of overrated v. Hunter in his corner he could possibly give jones jr problems

Especially vs a 92 jones jr (which is specified in the thread title) who wasn't yet at his peak, or a 168lber

 

Imo?
Only Monzon beats Roy at middleweight

 

I think Monzon beats the Roy from the first Hopkins fight. Roy was still green and had an injured hand.

In Roy's final fight at 160, he smoked Tate in 2 and looked incredible doing so. I kinda doubt Monzon would beat that Roy.

 

The thing about Roy is that as talented as he was, his chin wasn't really getting touched. Hill had his legs gone with a knockdown. I think skilled iron chinned guys who have big power should always be given a good chance. McClellan walked through prime Jacksons punches on his best night. His concept of defence was clearly having a huge offence. I think the McClellan from that fight gets heavily underrated. He wasn't getting KO'd by anyone that night. Can't say he'd beat Roy but he sure does have the power and chin. Monzon, Hagler, I'd give a few chances, maybe even GGG. But if Roy was iron chinned then I don't think he would lose.

 

The question of Roy's chin is a genuine one imo. He was so good in his prime that he never got tested, but when he got older and started messing around with weight, he got clipped and hurt, badly. It's possible that his punch resistance fell with age etc but it's also equally possible that he always had a dodgy chin. That opens up the protect of him losing to someone who can hurt him, even at his peak, so long as that guy can stick some long enough to land the punch needed.

1992-1996 Roy was a super middle, though, and there are no super middles you can pick with any confidence to beat him. Ward and Calzaghe are the best of the rest and neither have the power to test that chin. Prime Roy beats both handily. Better outside bets are those just beneath those two; McClellan, Benn and maybe Eubanks, for example, who could easily lose every second of every round against Roy (and might be stopped in the process, especially Benn) but who it is theoretically possible to envisage landing something big enough to pull off the upset. You're looking for someone with genuine power and, ideally, a good enough chin to survive a probable shellacking.

You would still pick Roy 9.5 times out of 10, though.

At 175, there is a wider pool of candidates. Most have already been discussed here.

MTF

 

I think that's what I was getting at. Although from a "former" gamblers perspective I'd put them at about 20% not quite 5% .

Benn, Eubanks, McClellan would have all been live dogs. But not much more than a few guys that Roy ended up beating relatively easily.

 

The 59 second mark is where you see the slow mo. Roys chin just wasn't good enough to confidently pick him to beat iron chinned guys with power in his prime. The way his legs went just looks like those bad neurological reactions of guys who can't really take big punches. If he fought enough skilled punchers with iron chins, who aren't going to get KO'd, surely one of them would get to him at some point.

 

That spasm which I agree is symptomatic of a vulnerable chin has been swept under the run largely by those insisting on RJJ's invincibility during his prime.

 

You guys found 1 punch in 15 years that proves Jones Jr's chin was vulnerable?

may as well post the video of the 8 count he got in amateurs vs frankie liles as further proof. those were the videos tarver watched

 

Let's the archives reflect that I predicted Tarver to win the first Jones Jr fight by knockout and was laughed off of planet Roy.

Just saying

 

It seems unfair to judge things off one punch but sometimes that is the case. It's not like Roy was getting touched regularly. Vitali has an ATG chin off the back of taking one punch from Lewis and remaining upright. We all know the punch.

Also, it's not a flash kd or something he was staggered from or anything. Roys nervous system shut down momentarily after taking the punch. And that is what we started seeing once he was taking flush punches after the reflexes had started to decline.

 

Sounds like an incorrect prediction to me

 

Uh huh.

Saying people are nitpicking from his first 15 years is unfair. Why don't you take the middle 15? He barely ever took any hard punches in his prime.

He was not far removed from his best win when he was flattened in 2 rounds by Tarver by a single punch, and knocked out cold by a hard but not very hard punch from Glen Johnson. Neither of them huge punchers.

Lou Del Valle was hardly elite and had Roy out for a good 30 seconds off a clean shot that still didn't land that hard.

You sure you weren't one of those posters writing a dissertation about how Roy Jones had never even been stunned and slipped VS del valle (there were several in that particular thread).

 

Roy is imo the most enigmatic of all the ATG as I can't appraise his true worth with any certainty. Was he the best p4p fighter ever who's only flaw was a slightly vulnerable chin or ''merely'' a great fighter with a glass chin who's (relatively) mediocre competition and timeliness made fans overrate him and hid his technical flaws??? I think the truth is closer to the former than the latter but can't say for sure.

 

His talent was other worldly. But great iron chinned fighters with power are always live. Roy would be favourite against them all. Mcclellan absorbed everything Jackson had. He was stunned but it's Julian Jackson. He eventually made it look like man vs boy. I'm giving that version of mcclellan a serious chance. Although looking at del valle and then tarver, one thing they have in common - both southpaws,both landed the left hand.

 

160 is a little tricky, especially given the weigh in procedures. Would you say he was green at the division, especially in 92-93? Although I can see you saying he began his prime when he was champ at 160. Maybe beginning with the Tate fight? He’s a handful for any MW ever. I actually would probably make him the slight favorite over Hagler.

At 168, there’s no one I would favor over him. I pick him to win clear decisions over Calzaghe and Ward. It could be competitive in spots, but 8-4/9-3 type decisions.

At 175, I would make Spinks and Foster slight to mild favorites over Roy.

Qawi is a very live underdog but I think Roy pulls off a tough decision win.

I can’t really speak on past greats like Moore, Charles, Conn, Harold, etc….due to rather limited footage.

 

it didnt land that hard?

 

This is a good post and it's Roy's fault. He could have fought everyone out there, but didn't. More importantly, he could have fought without juice.