Whats the final verdict on EJ as a fighter? Was he: Good Very good Great ATG I was a fan of him since 2015, but in the end, I can't in good conscious consider him a great. I think he firmly falls into the category of very good. Yes, I accept that he'll make the HOF, but I think in quality he falls shy of the great welters.
I dont see how you can rate him differently. Very good but not great fighter. Id put him a bit below Ike Quartey
I think Forrest was overall better. Prime Mosley would have beaten the dog shit outta Spence. There isnt anyone on Spence's win list I'd pick over Forrest. Forrest would have also defeated Brook, Porter, and Garcia. Head-to-head, I think Forrest would have the edge. I think Spence would have major problems with Forrest's length and jab.
Forrest has an argument for being greater than Quarter, regardless of the putcome of their fight (which was a robbery, we all agree). Quartey dont have anything as big as the Mosley wins
I’d say very good is fair. I don’t think he beats any of the true great welters or junior middles. Errol was solid. That’s what I mainly think of him. He definitely loses to Quartey, Forrest, and Mosley. Prime Shane would be a HORRIBLE match up for him. He loses to the other two guys anyway but he gets absolutely brutalized by a prime Shane.
The 2009 Mosley stops Spence if we're being honest. It wouldn't even require the peak Mosley of 00-01.
Spence stuck around 147 too long like trindad and quartey and others. Trinidad stayed long enough to get the payday and establish himself as a viable draw Maybe those 2 beat him. Maybe mosley does at 147. Delahoya never legitimately beat a southpaw as good as spence
"Maybe" Trinidad beats Spence??? Cmonnn Neil, I know damn well you're trolling on that one. Tito would have put Spence in the dirt. Basically a style mismatch. Spence never had the mobility nor the defense to have any semblance of a prayer versus Trinidad.
Id pick trinidad to win but you're talking about the best version of both at 147? That's spence before the heavy drinking. He'd easily be the best opponent trinidad faced/clearly defeated in that division until his last 2 fights Its hard to really tell the best version of trinidad at welterweight. He looked impressive as a kid vs better opposition. Then coasted for a few years until he outgrew the division and beat a washed whitaker and then the delahoya fight
No secret how I feel about Oscar, but prime DLH beats the Hell outta Spence, and probably gets him outta there. Errol isnt an elusive southpaw like Pea or Camacho, so that advantage is nullified.
Spence before the heavy drinking, on the very best night of his life, was clearly losing to Brook until Brook's eye gave out. I recently rewatched that fight about 4 months ago, and I freely admit I never gave Brook enough credit back in 2017. He was whuppin Spence's ass until his eye gave out, tbh. It could be Spence at his best versus a weight drained Trinidad, and Felix still wins. The gap in ability between Spence and Trinidad is frankly enormous. Vargas beats down Spence, let alone Tito.
Delahoya never beat the hell out of anyone at 147 as good as spence and no matter whether hes as elusive as whitaker it's a stylistic problem for delahoya
Vargas was an excellent talent but he never fought at 147. Hed murder spence we saw Saturday at 54 in a round or two
I think the bigger problem there is that Spence, even PEAK Spence, had a very bad habit of leaning in and leaving himself exposed when opening up. It is inevitable that he gets caught with big DLH hooks he doesn't see in-between his own shots.
Delahoya had his defensive flaws and got hit with shots too. He showed a good chin taking hard shots from proven punchers and got up when cracked, credit to him. I cant rightfully spence didnt have the same beard before he almost died in a car crash. Never seen him even remotely hurt prior
I think you overrate Spence a bit, and I will admit that pre-Porter, I REALLY overrated him too. I initially thought he did better in the Brook fight than he really did. In truth, Brook looked like the higher caliber fighter in that one skill wise -- Spence just grinded him down on attrition. But its one thing to grind down a merely good fighter like Brook versus legitimate ATGs like Oscar and Trinidad.
I havent see spence brook in a while. Maybe never since live 0n tv. I was at brook porter here and wasn't too impressed. Spence beat him down as he shoulda. Was that the best 147 spence? Not sure. He stuck around there
Well, the best Spence ever looked at 147 was probably against Algeri but... its Chris Algeri... Brook was the first top fighter he faced. I think you should rewatch it. Its pretty alarming to me how hittable even that version of Spence was. I cannot for the life of me see Spence beating Trinidad, DLH, Mosley, and Quartey.
yeh he was good, and borderline very good but it seems like a heavily flawed method to base any assessment of 'greatness' on mythical match ups, which is pure speculative opinion
Mainly basing it on the fact that Spence's resume was solid but nothing to write home about. Now, to be fair to Spence, he should also have a Thurman win on his resume, but Keith shamelessly ducked him when both were in their primes.
His resume is pretty solid, and would probably be good enough to put him in the great category (at least modern great) if it wasnt for the way he got blown out by Crawford
Spence could beat the Oba Carrs and Yory Boy Campas of 147, imo. But he’s definitely below the top 90s welterweights guys. I’d be tempted to favor Spence over Cotto due to styles. Miguel has better ability but prime Spence had better stamina and seemed more durable. Spence vs Margarito is a war. I could see Errol beating him. Id take Errol over Mayorga as well. And I’d pick him over Paul Williams but that one likely goes to a split decision. I’d have always taken Errol over Keith Thurman.
